Identity of FW190 Claimed on 12 September 1944

[Skipper]

Hello everyone - my first post here so please be gentle!

I am researching the history of a B-17 which flew with the 388th BG during 1944.

I have in my possession a copy of a Combat Report made out by this B-17's Ball Turret Gunner during a raid to Magdeburg on the 12 September 1944.

He claimed a "silver FW 190" as "destroyed". It "...came in from 8 o'clock high, in a diving attack. B.T. opened fire at 800 yds and the E/A continued the attack to within 200 yards; at this point the E/A burst into flames. The pilot of the E/A bailed out but his chute did not open (possibly due to a delayed jump)."

This action took place "just after the Rally Point" at 11:25 hours at a height of 25,000 feet.

I have had a look through the database for Luftwaffe fighter claim and see that JG4 were operating both Me109s and FW190s in that area during that time.

My question, based on the above limited information, is along the lines of "Does anyone know of any FW 190 (JG4 or otherwise) which would fit the description of the one claimed?"

Any information which might lead to this aircraft/JG/pilot being identified would be very much appreciated.

Best wishes

Graham Herbertson

[Brian Bines]

Hi Skipper,
I believe JG 4 lost 14 Fw 190's this day with 11 pilots killed, 1 baled out wounded, 1 missing and 1 wounded. No doubt other aircraft were damaged but with the pilots safe. The location for the pilot who baled out wounded is given as Oschersleben and he is Ofhr. Franz Schaar flying a 190 A8 white 16 w.n. 681315 of 5th Staffel.
Hope this helps perhaps another member may have more info.,
Regards
Brian Bines

[Skipper]

Hi, Brian!

Many thanks for your speedy and helpful reply.

It's funny you should mention Franz Schaar as according to the Luftwaffe claims database Schaar actually claimed a B-17 at 11:25 - just 2 minutes after "my" B-17 BT gunner claimed his 190. (Sorry, my initial post said 11:25 but should read 11:23).

Maybe clocks or recording of timings were slightly different between the two sides or in the heat of combat - maybe Schaar made a claim just immediately prior to being shot down? The database records his claim at 8,000m which ties in with the 25,000ft I quoted earlier. Schaar's claim is attributed to Sektor "HC" near the town of Helmstedt which is some 30km away where he bailed out to.

Could he be the one? It would be VERY interesting if he was as I have seen his photo on the net with the very aircraft you mention!

Thanks again, Brian!

Can anyone else confirm whether this claim might have been Schaar or indeed someone else from JG4?

I have to say that my impression of events, given the quotes from the USAAF Combat Report, was that the FW 190 pilot fell to his death. Maybe he did not but only waited to open his chute once out of the bomber stream and nearer terrafirma?!

Best wishes,
Graham Herbertson

[Skipper]

Hello again, Brian,

Could you please point me towards a reference for the JG4 pilots/aircraft lost on 12 September 1944?

Also, can anyone point me to a definitive record (e.g. reference book) for JG4 and/or which can provide details of the air battle over Magdeburg on 12 September 44?

Any help much appreciated as ever.

Regards

Graham Herbertson

[Jaap Woortman]

See 'publications' at http://www.luftwaffe.be/

Jaap