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  #11  
Old 28th March 2017, 21:14
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Good evening Gentlemen,

I have 39 kills for Josten in 1945, too.

I have 71 JG3 kills for Dahl (1941-1944), 14 kills for Dahl between 7Jul44 and 5Dec44 in JG300, 11 kills between 27Jan45 and 21Feb45 in JG300, and 7 kills in Mar/Apr with EJG2. This is nearly analogous to your findings and it leaves at least 25 kills of the calendar year 1945 open to debate.
Interestingly, these authors seem to have believed him:
  • Toliver/Constable (1968): 128 kills total
  • Musciano (1982): 128 kills total
  • Forsyth (2011): 126 kills total
  • Weal (2013): 129 (!) kills total
  • Schumann: 128 kills total

Cheers,

Michael
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  #12  
Old 29th March 2017, 12:42
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Dahl's (14) victories between 7 July 1944 and 5 December 1944 in JG300 are dubious but we can assume he flew the combat missions.

For the (11) victories between 27 January 1945 and 21 February 1945 it is highly unlikely he was still flying with JG 300, the unit was still on the Westfront in January 1945 and Dahl claims from 27 to 29 January were against russian aircraft. His claims for the 30th were even dubious as the 8th and 15th Air Forces were grounded on that day...
I am surprised Lorant & Goyat mention these victories (I have not my books on hands).

Then he claimed to have served with III./EJG 2 and scored his first jet victories in late March 1945. So in one month he scored 25+ victories and then converted to the Me 262 ?
I am also surprised that Foreman credits Dahl with 7 jet victories.

That's sad that all these researchers, due to the scarce of sources, have to trust the pilots. In most cases, that's not a problem as most talk in good faith. That would not be the first time (during or post-War) that Dahl took advantage of the situation to increase his fame.

It make me being suspicious when hearing from some pilots such as Dahl, Stigler or Galland, so maybe I'm overreacting but for me it make no sense to just copy and past the "128" Dahl wrote in his book. If no original source other than Dahl's book mention victories for Dahl in 1945, for me his score for 1945 is at 0. After all, he was Inspekteur der Tagjäger, a staff post, from 26 January 1945 to the end of the War. But feel free to contradict me.
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  #13  
Old 29th March 2017, 15:41
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

For memory
As from 20/01/45,the JG300 was based on the "eastfront"
I/JG300 to Liegnitz (Breslau)
III/JG300 to Lùben(Liegnitz)
IV/JG300 to Lùben

The concept "eastfront","westfront" at this time of conflict is in my opinion difficult to define.

Borkheide(base of I/JG300:"Westfront") located at 60 km sud of Berlin is only 50 mn away from Liegnitz ("eastfront")and it's quite possible although based on the "western" front to fight on the "eastfront".
This does not confirm the "victories" of Dahl but could explain his Russian's claims.

michel
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  #14  
Old 31st March 2017, 17:32
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Hello there Gentlemen,

it seems to me as if in 1945 Germans didn't care much about the act of claim confirmation. Those who fought, did so not for glory but for their sense of duty. Those who didn't fight strove for a safe assignment behind a desk or in a non-operational unit. Annoyingly, some of the latter eagerly tried to add to their score postwar. And one of the worst examples might have been Dahl.
I wonder who will be the first author to discredit his 1945 score in a book.

Michael
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  #15  
Old 31st March 2017, 19:03
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

it seems to me as if in 1945 Germans didn't care much about the act of claim confirmation. Those who fought, did so not for glory but for their sense of duty
Some of them obviously cared a great deal about victory confirmations because Luftwaffe's system of medals and promotions took account of accredited victories and/or missions flown. These things were seen as a measure of how well you were doing your job. In an organisation employing hundreds of thousands of people there were bound to be some frontline glory-seekers, just as there were people behind desks who were happy just to get the rations or whatever delivered to the right place.

Also the history books are full of examples of Germans acting up to the last minute of the war as if the Third Reich would never end. People aren't always realistic.
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  #16  
Old 31st March 2017, 20:44
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

From my ancestors I learned that indeed particularly young Germans were believing in the Final Victory until quite late in the war. The older guys who had experienced WW1 were rather inclined to feel doubts, especially after Stalingrad.

Apropos: is it known which was the last Knight's Cross awarded to an ace ?

Have a nice evening,

Michael
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  #17  
Old 1st April 2017, 13:02
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Hi Guys

I believe Dahl had unconfirmed claims amongst his alleged 129, I have found thirteen unconfirmed for him. I would say his confirmed was ninety+ of which eighteen+ for 1945. I also agree that Josten was the top ace of 1945, Brendel a close second with thirty-five, Josten also had many unconfirmed during 1945, at least seven including four on 20th February due to no witness.

For 1943 Nowotny had 194 confirmed claims Nr.62-255.

For 1944 Hartmann had 177 confirmed claims Nr.160-336

Best month Emil Lang with sixty-eight in October 1943 Nr.22-89

Best day seventeen by Marseille 1st September 1942 Nr.99-115, and Lang 3rd November 1943 Nr.98-114, possibly also August Lambert during 1944(evidence lacking)

Don't think Nowotny Hartmann and Lang were very honest, but Josten, Marseille and Brendel were.....perhaps Marseille was the best ever.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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  #18  
Old 1st April 2017, 17:27
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Hello Johannes,

nice to hear from you. Very interesting post.
You're right, Hartmann has 177 in 1944, not 172.
I didn't know for sure that Lang holds the record for the most kills in any month. He is also the top-scorer of all those who have not scored in the Bf109, isn't he ?

Cheers,

Michael
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  #19  
Old 2nd April 2017, 07:55
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Hi Michael

surely Nowotny and Kittel outscored Lang in the Fw190, not sure when each stopped flying the Bf109.

Another statistic for you.......ACE in a day i.e pilots that had five or more confirmed claims in a day, unfortunately it looks like the majority are those deemed "overclaimers", but the most such days is seventeen by both Nowotny and Hartmann, others are:-

Rudorffer 13
Weissenberger 12
Batz 12
Kirscher 11
Schuck 9
Hans Phillip 9
Franz Dorr 9
Kittel 8
Marseille 8
Graf 8
Wolfrum 7
Norz 7
Emil Lang 7
Hafner 7
Ehrler 6
Oskar-Heinz Bär 6
Barkhorn 6
Gollob 6
Stotz 6
Jennewein 5
Josten 5
Gerhard Hoffmann 5
Dickfeld 5
Birkner 5
Oskar Romm 5

For the biggest days, again the majority are by those deemed "overclaimers"

No details about August Lambert's, but we are led to believe 17, 14, and 12(17th April 1944) SG units seemed not to add there claims to the daily sheets at the exact time they were claiming lots, but a couple of flugbuch suggest Lamberts possible.

After Marseille and Lang's seventeens:-

Hubert Strassel 15 on 5th July 1943 (nr.38-52)
Wilhelm Batz 15 on 31st May 1944 (nr.141-155)
Erich Rudorffer 14 on 6th November 1943(nr.104-117)
Franz Schall 13 on 31st August 1944(nr.97-109)
Johannes Wiese 12(plus 1 unconfirmed) on 5th July 1943 (nr.70-81)
Lang 12 on 21st October 1943 (nr.57-68)
Adolf Dickfeld ~11 on 8th May 1942 (nr.63-73)
Walter Wolfrum 11 on 30th May 1944 (nr.79-89)
Walter Schuck 11 on 17th June 1944 (nr.102-112)
Erich Hartmann 11 on 24th August 1944 (nr.291-301)
Schall 11 on 26th August 1944 (nr.83-93)
Rudorffer 11 on 28th October 1944 (nr.194-204)
Hermann Graf 10 on 23rd September 1944 (nr.188-197)
Maximilian Stotz 10 on 30th December 1942 (nr.120-129)
Nowotny 10 on 24th June 1943 (nr.115-124)
Nowotny 10 on 1st September 1943 (nr.174-183)
Lang 10 on 13th October 1943 (nr.47-56)
Hartmann 10 on 26th February 1944 (nr.193-202)
Wolfrum 10 on 16th July 1944 (Nr.114-123)

Hopefully someday we will come across some useful documents regarding Lambert.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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  #20  
Old 2nd April 2017, 12:11
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Re: Top ace of the calendar year

Hello

The list of ACE in a day can be long!
Among the "lesser known",one can add:

Korner 5
Stahlschmidt 5
Langanke 7
Schultz 5
Bendert 5
F. K. Muller 5
Loschenkohl 5
Drdla 5
Bauer 5(X3)
Sochatzy 5(X2)
Ohlrogge 8
Von Einsiedel 5
Lemke 6
Ewald 5
Arnold 9
Schumacher 6
Neumann 8
Reuter 6 ( ALL verifiable and verified: on 23 claims,19 are verified,it's quite remarkable )

etc...etc...

best regards
michel
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