109 pilot claim ? for B24 on 25/3/1945

[Alex Smart]

hello,

Seeking the details of a 109 pilot and Unit even aircraft and airfield if at all possible.

Following flak damage the 109 pilot forced down a B24 that made a wheels down landing at an airfield(?) on the 25th March 1945.

B24 serial number was 44-41108 (456BG, 747BS)

Photos of the B24 with German "Crosses" apear in the new Austrian book mentioned on this website.

Thanks

Alex

[jiri]

This B-24 (damaged by flak) was forced to land in A/F Piestany, Slovakia (Pistyan in German) by Bf 109 of I./JG 53 stationed there.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Guys
According to Prien this was Fw Göbel who claimed his 16th victory over a Lib on this day at 15.05H

Cheers
Stig

[Boris]

In fact it was Lt. Arno Fischer.

[Alex Smart]

Hello ,

Thank you all for your replies.

Stig, where did you find the claim and name ?

Boris, where did you get the "fact" ?

Thanks

Alex

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Alex

MY source is Prien's JG 53 book, Vol 3.

So Boris what is your source??
According to Prien, Fischer scores his 15th victory on 21.3.1945 (Yak-3)
He then scores his 16th victory on 9.4.1945 (La-7)

I think we are ALL very curious

Cheers
Stig

[Peter Kassak]

In Priens book there is a memo of Fischer...
According this memo, Fisher was the one who forced the pilot of a Lib to land...But Gobel as more experienced and leader of Kette was credited by "victory" over Lib....although this one was still flyable later on as the photos proves...

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Guys

This is getting more and more curious. I have now read what it says in the ENGLISH printed version. Does the German issue say someting else. While it is true that Fischer (in his own words) state he forced the Lib to land, without firing a single shot.
Now, Fischer was a Leutnant while Göbel was a Feldwebel
Fischer was in temporary command of the third Staffel at the time.

How can Göbel, who is outranked by Fischer AND lower in command position as well, claim this victory unless he at least has been in the air and shot at it?? IN the interview made by Prien of Fischer there is NO statement he feels he is entitled to a victory that day.

No there has to be more to this than what is stated by bioterror

B Rgds
Stig

[Peter Kassak]

Maybe I am wrong, but wasnt it in Luftwaffe operational units, that not the rank matter, but the experience? and as far as i remember, Goebel had more victories that time and experience than Fischer...??

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hallo again

As far as I know a junior grade outranked ONLY a senior rank in leadership in the air. It did NOT give the junior rank the rights to claim victories for other scorers, certainly not senior ranks anyway.

As far as experience is concerned, I have NOT checked the JG 53 volumes for any clues about this. At the time of the present topic, the two individuals had exactly the same number of victories. See Priens list.

I find it very hard to understand that Göbel received credit for this Liberator if he was not involved with the victory in one way or another.
Although NOT stated in the book, Göbel may have been in the air as well and received credit for something known in the West as HSS.

Cheers
Stig