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  #1  
Old 1st November 2017, 10:31
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Faenor Faenor is offline
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Hi all,

I´m interesting in photos of Hawker Hurricane during Phoney War and Battle of France - as is visible from my previous thread. In this moment, I have lot of question and I hope, that somebody from this super forum can help me.

All, who are interesting in same thread are welcome and thanks for all response.

Faenor

1st question - captured Hawker Hurricane Mk. I - I´m searching for more info about this plane:
- Watts 2 blade wooden propeller and early style windscreen with external armour
- camo type A
- tricolore on the tail - "old version or style"
- marking G
- on one photo is visible hexagon mark on tail - so its 85. Sq? But then there not fit the tricolore on the tail - this type us mostly used by 1.Sq ....

Photo are on this link - in this moment, I don´t know, how to post these photo from external source
http://www.modelari.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2144

Thanks Faenor

Last edited by Faenor; 1st November 2017 at 14:37.
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  #2  
Old 1st November 2017, 18:58
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: General theme for Hawker Hurricane during Phoney War and BoF

Hello Faenor,
Not a two-seat Hurricane.
Just the canopy pulled back .
Red/white/blue rudder stripes were common in that it aided identification being similar to the French rudder markings.
Alex
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Old 1st November 2017, 19:11
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: General theme for Hawker Hurricane during Phoney War and BoF

The rudder stripes were only applied, at least initially, to 1 and 73 Squadrons of the Advanced Air Striking Force.

Last edited by Graham Boak; 3rd November 2017 at 00:07. Reason: 73 Sq not 72: thanks Alex, I blame the keyboard.
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  #4  
Old 2nd November 2017, 09:48
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Re: General theme for Hawker Hurricane during Phoney War and BoF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Boak View Post
The rudder stripes were only applied, at least initially, to 1 and 72 Squadrons of the Advanced Air Striking Force.
Hi, agree with your comment - the rudder stripes was appied on plane from 1. and 73. SQ (not 72.SQ as you wrote) based on some "blue-on blue" incidents with French Air Force in autumn 1939.

If we agree with this, then there is "heretic question" - is possible, that this plane is Hawker Hurricane Mk. I L1679 from 1.SQ - pilot F/O P.H.M. Richey ?
Based on information from Peter Cornwell book Battel of France Then and Now - page 231, this pilot force-landed at Tournes-Belval (probably French airfield) and this plane was destroyed in bombing May 14.

If we compare this plane with know photo - see this links:
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/j...i/RicheysG.jpg
https://lib.rus.ec/i/55/480355/pic_11.jpg
On these imagines from internet we can compare:
- Watts 2 blade wooden propeller - same
- camo type A,same under surface scheme (black/white/alluminium) - same
- same rudder stripes similar to French tricolore -same
- plane letter G (squadron codes was deleted by both squadrons - 1.Sq and 73.Sq
-same aerial mast and same type of ventral strake and tailwheel

- hexagon marking of rudder (85.Sq) - negative for compare :-(

My question is - do you have more info, how the plane L1679 was loss during bombing MAy 14? Is possible, that this plane was left on French airfield and this airfield was bombed during May 14 and then this plane was abandoned by French and plane was captured by German?

Or is this just "another lost Hawker hurricane durig Battele of France without information.....

Faenor

PS - over next days, I will share with you more similar photos questions based on photo from e-bay :-)
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  #5  
Old 2nd November 2017, 11:35
Bertrand H Bertrand H is offline
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Re: General theme for Hawker Hurricane during Phoney War and BoF

Hello Faenor,

Your demonstration is credible.

Now we would like to know if this Hurricane is abandoned in Tournes-Belval...

On the link you will have an aerial view of the airfield in 1948 in and we see this one just next of some woods and not so far the river Sormonne.

https://remonterletemps.ign.fr/telecharger?x=4.638196&y=49.785465&z=13&layer=GEOG RAPHICALGRIDSYSTEMS.MAPS.SCAN-EXPRESS.STANDARD&demat=DEMAT.PVA$GEOPORTAILEMAT; PHOTOS&missionId=missions.3722066

If the link is inoperative I will tell you how to get there.

HTH

Bertrand
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Old 2nd November 2017, 13:13
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Faenor Faenor is offline
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Re: General theme for Hawker Hurricane during Phoney War and BoF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertrand H View Post
Hello Faenor,

Your demonstration is credible.

Now we would like to know if this Hurricane is abandoned in Tournes-Belval...

On the link you will have an aerial view of the airfield in 1948 in and we see this one just next of some woods and not so far the river Sormonne.

https://remonterletemps.ign.fr/telecharger?x=4.638196&y=49.785465&z=13&layer=GEOG RAPHICALGRIDSYSTEMS.MAPS.SCAN-EXPRESS.STANDARD&demat=DEMAT.PVA$GEOPORTAILEMAT; PHOTOS&missionId=missions.3722066

If the link is inoperative I will tell you how to get there.

HTH

Bertrand
Hi Bertrand,

thanks for reply - your link I can´t open.
If there is somebody more familiar with French airfield during BoF, can please check this theme on this forum about Aufkl.Gr.(H)21 during French Campaign
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=37169

There is photo of Hs 126 from this German unit, and hangars/building in the background looks like building from imagine of this Hurricane.

If there is somebody with more info about this airfield, or have some photos of German units from this place for confirmation, it will be very helpful!
If you check this link, there is probably hangar from this airfield and again, build looks fine
http://aeroplanedetouraine.fr/hostein/

Faenor

Last edited by Faenor; 3rd November 2017 at 11:15.
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  #7  
Old 2nd November 2017, 14:48
Bertrand H Bertrand H is offline
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Re: General theme for Hawker Hurricane during Phoney War and BoF

Hi,

Go to the web site :

remonterletemps.ign.fr

then

TÉLÉCHARGEZ

DES CLICHÉS ET DES CARTES HISTORIQUES

In the blank case "Rechercher un lieu" put : Tournes

Click on 1940

then click again on the orange point

After you can download aerial view.

HTH

Bertrand
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  #8  
Old 2nd November 2017, 17:41
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: General theme for Hawker Hurricane during Phoney War and BoF

Hello,
Re the "hexagon" on the fin.
Could it be just some graffiti added by someone unknown ?
To me it does not have the look of the 85 Sqdn marking that is shown in many other photos available.
Alex
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Old 3rd November 2017, 03:04
bearoutwest bearoutwest is offline
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Re: General theme for Hawker Hurricane during Phoney War and BoF

Some notes of interest on Paul Richey's Hurricane 'G' of 1 Squadron:
(These are from memory of his partial autobiography "Fighter Pilot". Unfortunately, I don't have it to hand to check the details.)
- aircraft carried only the individual aircraft letter - i.e. 'G'- the squadron codes were removed sometime after arrival in France. (Possibly when the enlarged tail tricolour stripes were applied.)
- the only time Richey force landed 'G', it was after combat and his wooden propeller had disintegrated. He made a safe landing* and was congratulated in doing so by his C.O. who then also reprimanded him for taking the risk of gliding so far, instead of baling out.
- Richey was subsequently shot down in combat over France twice more.**

From Peter Cornwell's "Battle of France - Then and Now":
* This combat occurs on 11 May. Wingtip is also damaged in avoiding bomb crater. Aircraft is repairable, but destroyed in bombing on 14 May.
** Richey is also shot down - parachuting out - later on 11 May.

In the attached/linked photos, above, there is a bomb crater on the right of the aircraft but neither wingtip appears damaged. If this Hurricane is Richey's force-landed 'G', then it appears also that the propeller has been replaced, along with the wingtip being repaired. Is it practical to have had the damage repaired between 11-14 May? Is the bomb crater visible in one of the photo, the original crater which Richey had to avoid on landing; or is it possibly the bomb which eventually destroys 'G' - perhaps causing the extensive damage on the fuselage. I tend to think the former, as a bomb leaving such a crater next to the aircraft would most likely have sent it flipping over (in the least).

...geoff

PS. The damage does appear to be souvenir taking of the fabric, rather than bomb damage.

PSS. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f8/28...3fe3ef953f.jpg
This internet sourced photo of 1 Squadron Hurricane 'Z' has the letter code near the tail, rather than the cockpit as on the OP's attached photos.
https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/189995678009098308
This internet sourced photo shows a typical 85 Sqn Hurricane markings circa 20 May 1940. Caption records the aircraft shot down over France while strafing German troop convoy. (If this link fails, try a google search for 85 Squadron Hurricane markings 1940.)
__________________
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Last edited by bearoutwest; 3rd November 2017 at 03:26. Reason: Afterthough on damage....
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  #10  
Old 3rd November 2017, 11:37
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Re: General theme for Hawker Hurricane during Phoney War and BoF

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearoutwest View Post
Some notes of interest on Paul Richey's Hurricane 'G' of 1 Squadron:
(These are from memory of his partial autobiography "Fighter Pilot". Unfortunately, I don't have it to hand to check the details.)
- aircraft carried only the individual aircraft letter - i.e. 'G'- the squadron codes were removed sometime after arrival in France. (Possibly when the enlarged tail tricolour stripes were applied.)
- the only time Richey force landed 'G', it was after combat and his wooden propeller had disintegrated. He made a safe landing* and was congratulated in doing so by his C.O. who then also reprimanded him for taking the risk of gliding so far, instead of baling out.
- Richey was subsequently shot down in combat over France twice more.**

From Peter Cornwell's "Battle of France - Then and Now":
* This combat occurs on 11 May. Wingtip is also damaged in avoiding bomb crater. Aircraft is repairable, but destroyed in bombing on 14 May.
** Richey is also shot down - parachuting out - later on 11 May.

In the attached/linked photos, above, there is a bomb crater on the right of the aircraft but neither wingtip appears damaged. If this Hurricane is Richey's force-landed 'G', then it appears also that the propeller has been replaced, along with the wingtip being repaired. Is it practical to have had the damage repaired between 11-14 May? Is the bomb crater visible in one of the photo, the original crater which Richey had to avoid on landing; or is it possibly the bomb which eventually destroys 'G' - perhaps causing the extensive damage on the fuselage. I tend to think the former, as a bomb leaving such a crater next to the aircraft would most likely have sent it flipping over (in the least).

...geoff

PS. The damage does appear to be souvenir taking of the fabric, rather than bomb damage.

PSS. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f8/28...3fe3ef953f.jpg
This internet sourced photo of 1 Squadron Hurricane 'Z' has the letter code near the tail, rather than the cockpit as on the OP's attached photos.
https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/189995678009098308
This internet sourced photo shows a typical 85 Sqn Hurricane markings circa 20 May 1940. Caption records the aircraft shot down over France while strafing German troop convoy. (If this link fails, try a google search for 85 Squadron Hurricane markings 1940.)
Hi bearoutwest,

thanks for your point - yes, on some photo is visible soil, probably from crater.
On 2 imagines is visible, that he Hurricane have fabric wing. Buildings looks like from the airfield - from my respective, this is Hawker Hurricane Mk.I L1679 of F/O P.H.M. Richey after May 14, 1940.

During this weekend, I will post there more photo related to F/O P.H.M. Richey - including damaged Watts propeller of his plane from 20.4.1940.

Faenor
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