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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #1  
Old 16th April 2014, 15:33
Andy Saunders Andy Saunders is offline
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Spitfire VII ?

To me, this part seems to indicate a Spitfire VII as 351 = Mk VII. No 21 seems to indicate fin area.

This is a bit of mystery but may all help to unlock the clues to the identification of an aircraft and its pilot.

Is anyone able to confirm that such a structural part would only be found a Mk VII?

Presumably, the Mk VI would see part numbers annotated with the prefix 350?
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  #2  
Old 16th April 2014, 15:44
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
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Re: Spitfire VII ?

Anything to do with Margate ? *


* Just putting 2 and 2 together and either making 4 or 5!
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Old 16th April 2014, 17:24
Andy Saunders Andy Saunders is offline
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Re: Spitfire VII ?

No, nothing to do with Margate!! However....a connection not too far away from Margate.

On 14 May 1943 Flt Sgt E J Phelps was lost 20 miles east of Deal in EN496 of 124 Sqn.

Was he actually seen to go into the sea? Does anybody know what the 124 Sqn ORB says?

Other than that, of the 23-odd Merlin 61 equipped Spit VII aircraft built, does anybody have a data base that could easily extract the total airframe loss cases that also involved a pilot fatality? I think I have trawled them all, and come back to Phelps.
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Old 16th April 2014, 17:47
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JohnE JohnE is offline
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Re: Spitfire VII ?

ORB says: "It is felt that he might have gone into the sea 15 to 20 miles East of Deal".

John Engelsted
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Old 16th April 2014, 17:51
Andy Saunders Andy Saunders is offline
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Re: Spitfire VII ?

Thank you John.

If that is how the ORB is worded, I rather suspect that he didn't go into the sea!
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Old 16th April 2014, 18:49
Sean Welch Sean Welch is offline
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Re: Spitfire VII ?

Andy,
9 fatal incidents with the Spitfire Mk. VII.
However, all were equipped with the Merlin 64.
EN496 124 Sqdn, dived into sea from high altitude off Deal 14-5-43. F/Sgt E Phelps killed.
MB883 131 Sqdn Rhubarb to Morlaix, failed to return 7-6-44. W/O J E Woodey killed.
MB887 131 Sqdn Encountered flak from St.Brieuc, failed to return 1-6-44 W/O W J Atkinson RAAF killed.
MB935 131 Sqdn Crashed into the sea 25 miles south east of Bolt Head 23-4-44. W/O D F Phillips RAAF killed.
MD108 616 Sqdn 'YQ-E' Hit by flak from train at Folligny Marshalling yards, crashed in flames 22-5-44. F/Sgt G E Prouting killed.
MD116 616 Sqdn 'YQ-K' Crashed in bad weather Parham Sussex 1-4-44. F/Sgt D E Johnston RAAF killed.
MD121 616 Sqdn Collided with Bf109 and dived into ground near Laval 12-6-44. F/Lt G A Harrison killed.
MD123 131 Sqdn Shot down by flak Le Mans airfield 12-6-44. F/Lt V K Moody DFC RCAF killed.
MD133 616 Sqdn Shipping recconaissance, engine failed into sea off Start Point 19-6-44. W/O R A Hart RAAF killed.

Sean.
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Old 16th April 2014, 18:56
Andy Saunders Andy Saunders is offline
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Re: Spitfire VII ?

Thank you, Sean.

I am certain we are dealing with a Merlin 61 equipped aircraft and the losses in your list can also be excluded from this possibility due to the locations. But thank you, anyway, for your valued input.
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Old 17th April 2014, 04:23
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
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Re: Spitfire VII ?

Hello,

Small beer, but there is at least one omission from Sean's list:

MD171 131 Sqdn Lost control in cloud and dived into ground near Old Sarum 25-8-44 122343 F/Lt Cecil Ernest BEARMAN RAFVR killed.

Col.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 08:51
PeterA PeterA is offline
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Re: Spitfire VII ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Saunders View Post
To me, this part seems to indicate a Spitfire VII as 351 = Mk VII. No 21 seems to indicate fin area.

This is a bit of mystery but may all help to unlock the clues to the identification of an aircraft and its pilot.

Is anyone able to confirm that such a structural part would only be found a Mk VII?

Presumably, the Mk VI would see part numbers annotated with the prefix 350?
Andy,

351 just means introduced at Mk VII production.

If the part would service Mk IX production without modification then it will go forward still carrying the the 351 designator.

PeterA
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  #10  
Old 25th April 2014, 14:01
VoyTech VoyTech is offline
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Re: Spitfire VII ?

I think it could also be from any post-Mk VII variant.
I seem to recall a thread on this or another forum where examples were given of 300-prefixed parts (originating from the Spitfire I) still used in the Mk 24, or something like that.
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