Uffz Bauer 10./JG 51-Konrad Bauer

[Johannes]

Hi Guys

Can anybody tell me if Konrad Bauer flew for 10./JG 51 prior to joining the Staff of JG 51.....I assume not, but I cannot find a forename or any other details for this 10./JG 51 pilot. He makes two claims as an unteroffizier:-

20th March 1943 Pe-2 1525 hrs 100 metres
17th July 1943 Il-2 Lukowets area 0811 hrs 100 metres.

Konrad Bauer makes fourteen claim with Stabst./JG 51 between 1st September 1943 and 12th January 1944 as an unteroffizier, it would expalin why I can find no loss for the 10./JG 51 pilot if in the unlikely case they were the same guy.

Grateful for any assistance.

Regards

Johannes

[kaki3152]

According to Obermaier, he scored 18 victories on the Eastern Front. If he had 14 with the Stab/JG-51 and 2 with 10./JG-51, that only comes to 16. However, Obermaier has him with his first victory on December 1,1943.

[Nordpol54]

@ Johannes,

if You like to, please check the following database-entry at

http://www.lostaircraft.com/database...ewentry&e=1273

I am not aware if there had existed another Konrad Bauer in Luftwaffe service as a fighter pilot. If You don't already know the details of the data-sheet this may be of help.

Kind Regards
Norbert

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Johannes

According to Prien he claimed three victories with 10./JG 51 on 20 March, 17 July and 2 August prior to recording his fourth victory on 1 September with the Stabsstaffel of JG 51. His victory on 2 August was an Il-2 m.H. at 8:42 at 53 681. I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

[Johannes]

Hi guys

Many thanks that is incredibly helpful. Jochen Prien is not often wrong, so I'll assume that Konrad was with 10./JG 51.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Johannes]

Hi Leo

That claim for 2nd August 1943 not by Bauer, but by Rudolf Barsch who was killed that same day.

Regards

Johannes

[knusel]

Good evening Gentlemen,

how come Konrad Bauer's total score is variously given as 36, 57, 60 or 68 ?
Is there some hard evidence that proves one of these scores correct ?

Kind regards,

Michael

[Red Baron]

attn Michael
regarding Bauer's score, we are indeed facing with numerous versions:
a) a 68 victories old version (with 32 viermots): was never documented with any supporting evidences...
b) a 57 victories version (with 32 viermots too): for long, in the past, it was the version I was promoting (see attachment "old") , by adding some other claims which were not in the Tony Wood 's lists; But this version was not consistent with the other official war record... (eg: RK for 34 victories)
c) Then came the JG300 chronicle (Lorant & Goyat), and then everything became clearer: all the claims/ wrong claims/ real victories / official war records are explained in the chronicle, day per day, or explained in specific notes; a complete victory list is given at the end.... difficult to argue, since this is result of 20 years interviews with the pilots themselves... AND: it matches perfectly with the T. Wood lists !
- 18 victories upon arrival in JG300 = 15 in Russia + 3 in JG3
- NO claims in June 44 (war double counting with July 's claims ?)
- 18 victories in JG300
- RK in october 1944, for 34 victories (it matches !)
- Few flights after being wounded, resulting with only 2 additionnal victories
It leads to a final total of 36 victories, incl. 16 viermots (see attachment 2)
Between the numerous copy/ paste summaries, without any evidence and not consistent, and a 1st hand record direct from the LW pilots, fully consistent with official records, I choosed the 2nd approach... ;-)
Hope it clarifies the subject.
Dom

[Red Baron]

Hello,
some clarifications on BAUER's score :
1) The 68 victories list is rather old, and was never documented;
2) For long, I was promoted too a 54-57 victories list (see attachment "old"Attachment 17462), by adding some other victories/ claims to the initial list from T. WOOD; but it did not match with other sources (RK = 34 victories, etc)
3) Then came the JG 300 chronicle from JY LORANT/ R. GOYAT, and everything became consistent between the explanations notes provided by LORANT , and the initial list from WOOD :
- 18 victories before arriving in JG 300;
- RK for 34 victories;
- Few flights only (therefore few victories only) after being wounded in October 44;
The JG 300 chronicle gives clear explanations regarding all claims/ victories/ erroneous double counting, and took source directly from JG300 pilots including BAUER himself before he died, therefore poor chance of mistakes...
It leads to a 36 victories list, including 18 viermots and 5 P51 (see 2nd attachmentAttachment 17463)
Hope it clarifies the matter
Dom

[Red Baron]

Some clarifications on BAUER's score :
1) The 68 victories list (incl. 32 viermots) is not documented; therefore difficult to take it as a serious reference...
2) The 54-57 victories list , make evidence of some obvious confusions:
- the 18 victories upon arrival in JG300 (15 East +3 in JG3), are changed in "18 East";
- double-counting of the JG3 victories (3 became 6)
- Double-counting of the July 1944 victories in JG300 (double-counted in June: this is explained in the JG300 chronicle by LORANT/ GOYAT page 201)
Last but not the least, it did not match with other WW2 initial sources (RK for 34 victories, etc)
3) The 36 victories comes from the Tony WOOD claims list, and are fully documented (as the fictious claims) in the JG300 chronicle above :
- 15 East victories;
- 3 with JG3 = 18 victories before arriving in JG 300;
- 18 with JG300;
- RK for 34 victories;
- Few flights only (therefore few victories only) after being wounded in October 44;
The JG 300 chronicle gives clear explanations regarding all claims/ victories/ erroneous double counting, and took source directly from JG300 pilots including BAUER himself before he died, therefore should be the nearest to reality...
It leads to a 36 victories list, including 18 viermots and 5 P51
(I tried to attach the final score in JPEG format, but seems rejected ?)
Hope it clarifies the matter
Dom