Bf 109 WNr.2658 ?

[ouidjat]

Hi gents,
Any available information concerning this machine?
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Franck.

[JoMe]

Hi Franck

This is, what I have:

2658 / E-1 / 14+ rt.
2/JG 51, 22.11.39 FP Mannheim-Sandhofen, Start-FP Straßbourg-Neuhof/F, Verorientierung/NL
Ofw Herbert Kloimüller G-z

franz. Beute, +28.11.39 FP Straßbourg-Neuhof/F, Start-Ziel: Toul/F-über Toul/F, Koll./Luft m.Begleitjäger/Absturz, FSA
Cmdt Konstantin Rozanoff -

best wishes
JoMe

[Rottler]

The first name of Ofw Kloimüller was Herfried, not Herbert.

Regards
Leo

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by JoMe

Hi Franck

This is, what I have:

2658 / E-1 / 14+ rt.
2/JG 51, 22.11.39 FP Mannheim-Sandhofen, Start-FP Straßbourg-Neuhof/F, Verorientierung/NL
Ofw Herbert Kloimüller G-z

franz. Beute, +28.11.39 FP Straßbourg-Neuhof/F, Start-Ziel: Toul/F-über Toul/F, Koll./Luft m.Begleitjäger/Absturz, FSA
Cmdt Konstantin Rozanoff -

best wishes
JoMe

Thank you JoMe,
Yep, the problem being that this machine - Kloimüller's one - 'Rote 14, is indicated as WNr.1215 in loss list.
This is precisely I'm asking the whereabouts of 2658
More, 2658 was supposed to be a Bf 109 D (according the production listing of BFW) or, at least, a Bf 109 E-3(a?).
So, any other information(s)
Regards,
Franck.

[Rottler]

Hello Franck,

yes, the Arado built Bf 109 E-1 WNr. 2658 was indicated as WNr. 1215 in loss documents. The WNr. 2658 results from a French inspection report and an inventory of the I./JG 51 status September 1939. The WNr. 1215 was a Bf 109 E-3.
Sources:
JFV Vol. 2 pages 277/278 (two photos of the red 14 in a hangar and the loss survey of the I./JG 51) and JFV Vol. 11/II page 575, correction of the entries in Vol. 2.

Regards
Leo

[ouidjat]

Yep,


Thank you Leo I just did received a copy of the French inspection report (SHAA archives)
...
This bug was to be expected since WNr.1215 is declared lost three years later (!) while in EJGr. Ost.
But from 2658 to 1215 ?! How much credible the GQM are ???
...
And how credible our "experts" are when in their listing production (see another thread, here in TOCH) 2658 is declared to be a Bf 109D produced by BFW !!!
....

I believe there is an explanation , though:
One of these machines started like D and finished as E something by another subcontractor ...


Thanks again Leo!
Regards,
Franck.


PS the two pictures of "Red 14" have been published times ago in the French review "Air Fan" by Lorant. The French report says "Four pictures have been taken" (at Strasbourg, of course) I'd like to see the two others