Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 26th January 2010, 07:46
stefanbuss stefanbuss is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 22
stefanbuss is on a distinguished road
Where did White 7 end? Me262 WNr 111704

Hello friends,

i am a little bit lost looking for details on White 7 of Jagdverband 44, especially its final resting place.

A search on hyperscale brought up two contradicting statements by David E. Brown, either stating the a/c was found in Neu Biberg (22.09.2005: "It is worth noting that several JV 44 pilots stated that they thought Galland flew and aircraft coded "7". If this is true, then that particular aircraft appears to have survived to wars end. There are partial views of it in two photos taken at Neubiberg in May 1945. The "7" is painted in white and just visible in one shot and the tail in another where the last three digits of the Werknummer are visible: "704". This is the exact same style and position as other low-end 1117XX-series kites where the first three digits were omitted - recall 111711 Hans Fey's surrendered kite, unpainted; 111712 found at Innsbruck also unpainted, etc. An entry for an Me 262 "113704" appears on the JV 44 Werknummer list of 26 April 45 but it in all probability is a transcription error as are a number of others in the list (e.g., there is no such thing as a "502XXX" Werknummer series - these are 5501XXX aircraft). The aircraft, "White 7", WNr.111704 has the correct style and position of markings as other JV 44 kites, is from the Werknummer block that a great majority of JV 44 Me 262s were sourced from, and comes from the known source where they obtained them. A rather beat-up crate with attributes that fit what we know of his history.")

or Bad Aibling (09.03.2008: "White 17's national markings are completely different from other 170000-series aircraft, or indeed, all other Me 262s. Most distinctive are the simple black-coloured B4 style fuselage Balkenkreuz as opposed to the ubiquitous white ones. As well, the tail Hakenkreuz is the simplified all black He style and not the more common H2 style. Except for the twin-seat Me 262B nightfighters / trainers, this black fuselage Balkenkreuz only observed on very late-war A-1a-series aircraft built at Schwabisch-Hall from the 1117XX series. Examples know via photographs include:

WNr.110550, White 10 / White S, III./EJG 2, found at unknown waldwereke
WNr.111704 "White 7" of JV 44, found at Bad Aibling;")

Bad Aibling and Neu Biberg are roughly 40km apart. So: where did white 7 really end, and where can i find photos of this aircraft?

Stefan
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 26th January 2010, 09:04
Dan O'Connell Dan O'Connell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon, USA
Posts: 419
Dan O'Connell is on a distinguished road
Re: Where did White 7 end? Me262 WNr 111704

111704 Me 262 A-1a. Accepted by Hptm. Toni Lotter in a flight at Neuburg, 18:14-18:29 on 3 April 1945. Captured by US troops at Bad Abling or Neubiberg in May 1945. ‘White 7’. It is believed to have been assigned to JV 44. The last three digits of the Werknummer can be seen in a photo of the starboard side of the rudder.


That's all I know about it. I hope more infornation comes forward.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 26th January 2010, 09:16
Dan O'Connell Dan O'Connell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon, USA
Posts: 419
Dan O'Connell is on a distinguished road
Re: Where did White 7 end? Me262 WNr 111704

And, I am sure it was just a simple typo error, we all do it, but there were no 5501XXX Werknummern or 502XXX. It was 500 or 501, all under Regensburg administration and built at Wald Werk Stauffen (Obertraubling)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 26th January 2010, 12:34
stefanbuss stefanbuss is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 22
stefanbuss is on a distinguished road
Re: Where did White 7 end? Me262 WNr 111704

"Captured by US troops at Bad Abling or Neubiberg in May 1945."

As i said - either Bad Aibling or Neu Biberg. 40kms apart.

Stefan
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27th January 2010, 01:57
David E. Brown's Avatar
David E. Brown David E. Brown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bedford, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 202
David E. Brown
Re: Where did White 7 end? Me262 WNr 111704

Stef,

My earlier posting was in error. Also, you are confusing several aircraft found in Southern Germany:

1. There are several extant photos taken by the US Army Signal Corps that confirm the Bad Abling location for "we.7", WNr.111704 of JV 44. There are no photos of the complete aircraft; just segments of it visible in the background in other photos though there is enough to confirm its identity and camouflage anf markings.

2. For "we.17", WNr.110956 of III./EJG 2, this Me 262 was found at Lechfeld and scrapped there.

3. Furthermore, the unpainted Me 262 A-1a Jabo WNr.111728, a third aircraft, was found and scrapped at Neubiberg.

Both WNr.111712 and "we.17" were well photographed and many photos of them abound and are published in a number of books and magazines.

Cheers,

David

Last edited by David E. Brown; 27th January 2010 at 15:14.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27th January 2010, 07:29
Dan O'Connell Dan O'Connell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon, USA
Posts: 419
Dan O'Connell is on a distinguished road
Re: Where did White 7 end? Me262 WNr 111704

Uh, Dave, 712 was found in Innsbruck....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27th January 2010, 10:07
stefanbuss stefanbuss is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 22
stefanbuss is on a distinguished road
Re: Where did White 7 end? Me262 WNr 111704

so, indeed white seven (111704) was found in Bad Aibling.

Good news for me, thank you very much for solving this misunderstanding.

Regards,
Stefan
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27th January 2010, 15:13
David E. Brown's Avatar
David E. Brown David E. Brown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bedford, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 202
David E. Brown
Re: Where did White 7 end? Me262 WNr 111704

Hi Dan,

Right! I should have said 111728. In my defense I'm all medded-up due to a very nasty cold.

Many thanks,

David
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 28th January 2010, 00:51
Dan O'Connell Dan O'Connell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon, USA
Posts: 419
Dan O'Connell is on a distinguished road
Re: Where did White 7 end? Me262 WNr 111704

Quote:
Originally Posted by David E. Brown View Post
Hi Dan,

Right! I should have said 111728. In my defense I'm all medded-up due to a very nasty cold.

Many thanks,

David
That's not good :-( Get better soon!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26th September 2010, 21:22
jason100871 jason100871 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1
jason100871 is on a distinguished road
Re: Where did White 7 end? Me262 WNr 111704

To Stefan, saw these photos on ebay of a Me 262 at Aibling, Germany. Shows a wrecked 262 dated 10/25/1945 Maybe the one your looking for. Pictures attached are from a tonelli auction. Jason
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Me 262 Bad Aibling, Germany #1.jpg (47.3 KB, 178 views)
File Type: jpg Me 262 Bad Aibling, Germany #2.jpg (32.0 KB, 112 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40 Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 23 28th April 2010 22:22
Hans-Joachim Marseille by James H. Kitchens,III & John R. Beaman, Jr PhilippeDM Books and Magazines 2 20th July 2008 20:50
JG2 losses 19/8/42 Steve49 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 18 19th August 2007 17:10
Factories - WNr batches HGabor Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 6 2nd July 2007 14:02
ME262 Wnr 110305 ZAR000 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 6 29th December 2005 09:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net