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  #1  
Old 28th June 2019, 08:34
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Help about Erich Hohagen

Hello

Can someone help me clarify some of his claims?

06/09/43:
How many claims:1 or 4 (including 1 Boston)?
15/09/43:
3 B-17 (Obermaier)...nothing according T.Wood!
09/43:
3 Boston in one mission??? (Obermaier), really? again nothing T.Wood.

OK,"Obermaier" is an very old source,but approximations like this!

What do some newer sources say?
Regards
Michel
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  #2  
Old 28th June 2019, 11:48
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Help about Erich Hohagen

Hello Michel,

in JFV 10/IV the following victories of Gruppenkommandeur Hptm Erich Hohagen Stab I./JG 2 are listed:

06 Sep 1943 3 B-17 (40., 41., 42.) and 1 Boston (43.)
15 Sep 1943 ø
16 Sep 1943 aerial combat B-17, belly-landing, Rennes, 30% Fw 190 A-6 550532, Hohagen injured.
14 Oct 1943 1 B-17 (44.)
No 3 Boston in one mission.

Regards
Leo
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  #3  
Old 28th June 2019, 15:33
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Re: Help about Erich Hohagen

Thanks Leo

06/09/43
It seems that there are more than 24 claims that day.
Can you tell me the place and time of the 4 claims of Hohagen?I have for one:H-6,3 km N.W Troyes.

Buhlingen=3
Beckers=3
Mayer=3
Ottendorfer=1
Dahmer=1
Baudach=1
Ender=1
Ebert=2
Bigge=1
Klein=1
Sickler=1
Eder=1
Jahn=1
Dieckert=1
Lemke=1
Henning=1
Hohagen=4

Fuchs=2

Total=29
Right?
Michel
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  #4  
Old 28th June 2019, 19:56
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Help about Erich Hohagen

Hello Michel,

the 4 claims of Hptm Hohagen quoted from JFV 10/IV page 444:
12.14 B-17 PlQu. 04 Ost / CH-6, northwest of Troyes, 6.000 m
13.00 B-17 southwest of Meaux
13.00 B-17 5 km southwest of Compiegne
15.03 Boston PlQu. 05 Ost / 0165.

Regards
Leo
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:40
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Re: Help about Erich Hohagen

Thank you again

Personal remarks:
claim against Boston...very doubtful!:no Boston lost.

Two B-17 claimed at the SAME time (13h.00) but 52 km apart from each other!!...that's also weird.

Best Regards
Michel
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Old 30th June 2019, 11:02
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Help about Erich Hohagen

Michel

As per Johannes Mathews, Hohagen made the following claims

6.9.1943: one B-17 3km NW Troyes at 12.14H (39th claim)
15.9.1943: none
16.9.1943: none
14.10.1943: one B-17 SW Verdun at 15.55H (40th claim)

No Boston included at any date, before or after. He only ever claimed one twin engine aircraft in the west, a Ventura on 21.4.1943

As Johannes has stated many, many times, reading the microfilms is very, very hard and he has reached his conclusions independently from anyone else.
He has never said he is 100% correct in his conclusions, but he is very reluctant to make overclaims himself for various fighter pilots.

Cheers
Stig
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Old 30th June 2019, 13:29
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Help about Erich Hohagen

Hello Michel and Stig,

in post #4 I have quoted the claims of Hptm Hohagen on 6 Sep 1943 from the claims list in JFV 10/IV columns 1 – 8. I have not quoted the column 9 with the information about an official confirmation of a claim, letter “B“ for Bestätigung/confirmation. Only one of the four claims is confirmed, the B-17 12.14 nothwest of Troyes.

Many years ago Dr. Prien has posted to the letter ‘B‘ in the claims lists:

“Gentlemen,

the letter “B“ in column 9 of the claims lists denotes that there is documentary proof that the claim in question was officially confirmed as was explained in Vol. 1, p. 83. For the rest of he claims so far no official document has been found which does not automatically mean that they were not confirmed – in many cases it just means that the necessary proof is lacking in the incomplete documents that were left behind by the RLM. There is also a substantial proportion of claims that were still pending an official assessment or decision respectively when in early 1945 the confimation apparently came to a stand still owing to the development of the war situation; the known RLM documents peter out in January / February 1945. At this time a surprisingly high proportion of claims dating back from 1942 and 43 were still awaiting their confirmation, slumbering in the files with the respective remarks such as “A.S.M.“ or “V.N.E.“ which in both cases meant that the final assessment was postponed – until which point still remains a matter of conjecture.

The lack of a “B“ in column 9 does not mean, that the claim was officially rejected; in those cases, where it is proven by documents that a claim was rejected, there appears a “n.b.“ for nicht bestätigt or not confirmed.

Hope this helps
Regards
Jochen Prien“

Regards
Leo
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  #8  
Old 30th June 2019, 14:16
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Re: Help about Erich Hohagen

Hi Leo and Stig

The "case" is far from clearing,on the contrary,the fog thickens!what a "m..s"

Which is very disturbing,his first B-17 claimed (12h.14,N.W Troyes)correspond to a referenced loss:then (according Prien),the B-17 claimed (13h.00,S.O.Meaux) CORRESPOND ALSO to a referenced loss!!and to finish,that claimed (Prien) S.W Compiegne CORRESPOND to one of 3 of 384°BG lost in the region:the time being a problem:13h.00.

"Cherry on the cake":no other pilots claimed in the region of Compiegne.

So,Prien is right? very disturbing.

Best Regards
Michel
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