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  #1  
Old 31st July 2005, 11:23
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ju55dk ju55dk is offline
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Exclamation Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.

For those who are interested in this unit. It was probably not easy to be Gruppenkdr. of such a spread out unit! Kdr. was Major Wiegmink.

Junker
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Old 31st July 2005, 20:38
derek hicks derek hicks is offline
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Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.

Would you by any chance know anything of a Luftwaffe Pilot. Unserm Einheits.
I have a Luftwaffe dagger inscribed "Unserm Einheits Fuhrer zum 28 Geburtstag T3/VIII" which I assume is Bordflieger fw62 Unit 196. Any information would be gratefully appreciated.
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Old 31st July 2005, 21:53
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Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.

Unserm Einheits Führer zum 28 Geburtstag means:

Our unit leader to his 28 birthday!

I do not know what T3/VIII stands for! Where do you have the information that the dagger belonged to a man from Bordfliegergruppe 196?? Of the Fw 62 there was only build 4 prototypes!!

Junker
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Old 1st August 2005, 16:57
derek hicks derek hicks is offline
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Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.

Hi Junker

Thanks for your prompt reply. I have to admit that I'm researching this item on behalf of a colleague who does not have a computer. Apparently it is a mint Luftwaffe 2nd pattern dagger with the inscription mentioned being inscribed, as I remember, on the cross guard (Unserm Einheits Fuhrer zum 28 Geburtstag T3/VIII). From another source I was inform that this man served with 1/Bordfliegerstaffel 196 (1.Shipboard Sqdn 196). Unit 196 flew fw 62's reconnaissance. Grateful any other information you can offer. Thanks
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Old 1st August 2005, 18:04
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Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.

Hi.

It is difficult without a name on the guy! 1/196 did not fly the Fw 62 as it never entered service! T3/VIII might point to the Fokker seaplane but that is an educated guess. So without further informations it will be impossible to help you.

Junker
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Old 8th August 2005, 19:35
derek hicks derek hicks is offline
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Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.

Thanks for your assistance with my enquriies. My German is 'nilch' but I assume Unserm Einheits is the Pilot's name.
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Old 8th August 2005, 20:10
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Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek hicks
Thanks for your assistance with my enquriies. My German is 'nilch' but I assume Unserm Einheits is the Pilot's name.
It is not the pilots name! It means our unit and Führer means leader, so it says:
Our unit leader.

Junker
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Old 9th August 2005, 02:19
Yves Marino Yves Marino is offline
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Unhappy Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.

JU55DK, I wouldn't go so far and search for T3/VIII Fokker seaplane.
T3 was the identification code for 1(Staffel)./Bordfliegergruppe 196; VIII could be a code for a subunit (schwarm) of the 1.Staffel or simply stand for August, or....
In the copy of the document you show you'll find that 1./Bfl.gr.196 is "ein unterstellter Verband" and the Bordfliegergrupe 196 itself is an " Einheit".
So it could be that the "Einheits Führer" or better "Einheitsführer" was in fact the Gruppenkommandeur at that time and the Kammeraden from 1.Staffel made him a present.
Gruppenkommandeure of Bordfliegergruppe 196 were:
Maj Gerrit Wiegmink, 9.43 - 4.44
Maj Schmidt, 4.44 - 1944 (see more under http://www.ww2.dk/air/seefl/bfgr196.htm )
If you can find anything about them and their birthdays, than this will prove (or not) my guess.

It's a mistery for me were Derek has the information from that "which I assume is Bordflieger fw62 Unit 196" and "Unit 196 flew fw 62's reconnaissance."?!

Regards Yves
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Last edited by Yves Marino; 9th August 2005 at 02:21.
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Old 9th August 2005, 09:32
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Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Marino
JU55DK, I wouldn't go so far and search for T3/VIII Fokker seaplane.
T3 was the identification code for 1(Staffel)./Bordfliegergruppe 196; VIII could be a code for a subunit (schwarm) of the 1.Staffel or simply stand for August, or....
It was also the code for Stab and 2/196!
In the copy of the document you show you'll find that 1./Bfl.gr.196 is "ein unterstellter Verband" and the Bordfliegergrupe 196 itself is an " Einheit".
So it could be that the "Einheits Führer" or better "Einheitsführer" was in fact the Gruppenkommandeur at that time and the Kammeraden from 1.Staffel made him a present.
Einheit could be anything from 2-3 aircraft to Gruppe/Geschwader, but your guess is as good as mine.
Gruppenkommandeure of Bordfliegergruppe 196 were:
Maj Gerrit Wiegmink, 9.43 - 4.44
Maj Schmidt, 4.44 - 1944 (see more under http://www.ww2.dk/air/seefl/bfgr196.htm )
If you can find anything about them and their birthdays, than this will prove (or not) my guess.
Wiegmink was born in july.

It's a mistery for me were Derek has the information from that "which I assume is Bordflieger fw62 Unit 196" and "Unit 196 flew fw 62's reconnaissance."?!

Regards Yves
It would be nice if Derek would supply a photo of the inscription?

Junker
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Old 9th August 2005, 17:15
derek hicks derek hicks is offline
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Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.

Thank you so very much for all that information you've given and am sure my colleague (who doesn't have a computer) will be well pleased. I shall see if he is willing to let me borrow the Luftwaffe dagger in question to send a photo down to you. Once again I appreciate all your time and effort in assisting with this research and am sure the "leaders" you've offered will make the job so much easier. Thanks again.
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