Western victories of Paul Heinrich Dähne

[Nokose]

Since I posted my last “JG 11 Victories “, I became interested in Hptm Paul Heinrich “Sarotti” Dähne of III/JG 11. In Kracker Luftwaffe it lists a P-47 (95) near Arnhem 25 Sep 44, Spitfire (96) over Holland 27 Sep 44.

In Prien’s JFV 13/V it lists only III/JG 11 as victories with no pilot for a P-47 and a Spitfire on these days. It lists his victory on the 24 December 44 as a P-38 (98), I’ll post something on that claim later.

Does Tony Woods lists have anymore on his victories on the return of III/JG 11 to the West from Russia.

[Johannes]

Prien's earlier JG1&11 book is full of speculation.......educated guesses. His more recent books are using the mikrofilms and should be regarded as almost all fact. The 24th December 1944 claim would be the last date for JG11 for daily mikrofilm claims to be recorded.

Dähne's claim on 24th December 1944(P-38 1023 hrs) was his ninety-ninth and last recorded on the mikrofilms. My friend Bernd Barbas told me he had an unconfirmed total of 128 for this pilot, though whether this includes unconfirmed claims, or post 1944 claims I do not know.

Dis-regard the other 1944 claims in the West, his ninety-eighth claim was a Russian aircraft(Jak-9 1945 hrs) on 19th July 1944 with 10./JG11. His 90th and last with Jg52 was on 14th May 1944. 91st-98th with 10./Jg11(26th June until 19th July 1944.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Nokose]

I sat down and went through both Prien’s books and Tony Woods’s list compiling his victories for 2./JG 52 and 10./JG 11. Your right about the 19 Jul 44 claim for a Yak-9 being his 99th and that would be his 100th for the P-38 on the 24 Dec 44. That would put him in the 100 victory club easily without taking in unconfirmed. The Kracker Luftwaffe Archive has some interesting material but I wonder where they got that he shot down a P-47 on the 25 Sep 44 and a Spitfire on the 27 Sep 44. There was a Spitfire shot down on the 27 Sep 44 but there isn’t any more data to check it on. III/JG 11 did have a claim for a Spitfire on the 27th.

His 1st victory is for a Blenheim on 26 Au 41 to the south of Juist. So at least 2 known victories in the West at this time.

[Leo Etgen]

Hi guys

I noticed that the third claim listed for him on 17 April 1944 (Airacobra at 14:55 at 98 61 at 300 m) is suspiciously similar to that claimed on 18 April 1944 (Airacobra at 17:55 at 98 61 at 300 m). Could this be a duplicated claim? I have a feeling it is but would like your opinions on this.

Horrido!

Leo

[Johannes]

Hi Leo

When I compiled my Dähne list I had mis-typed the time for the 17th April claim, it is indeed an exact match to that of 18th April, same quadrant details, also the claim for Manfred Eberwein is also a duplication. With both claims on the 17th April the anerk.nr is missing, but appear on those for the 18th April.

Morevover Dähne's claim for a U-2 on 17th April 1944 0750 hrs has an anerk.nr of 96, that for the same date at 1210 hrs an anerk.nr of 97, that for 18th April an anerk.nr of 98. The next claim from this staffel was by Herbert Planer on 20th April at 1205 hrs, this has an anerk.nr of 99, which just about proves your theory correct..........there is a double duplication for both Eberwein and Dähne.

So which is correct? You would think that as the daily mikrofilm lists were compiled well daily, then they were for the 17th not 18th, yet the anerk.nr's are on those for 18th. Unfortunately there were no other claimers of similar times to judge if the staffeln were actually in combat during this time.

I would guess that the 17th is correct, and that anerk.nr's being missing prompted their inclusion with correct anerk.nr's on the 18th.

Perhaps our Russian losses experts can deduce the truth. I think that I./JG52 was the most honest Gruppe with this Geschwader.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Johannes

Many thanks for your very helpful answer. I agree with your conclusions and most likely this is a duplicate entry in the micro-film. I am going to take this opportunity to ask you guys about a question that has been nagging me for over a decade: based on the information contained in the micro-films one could assume that 2./JG 52 was redesignated 10./JG 11. However, according to the Jagdgeschwader 1 und 11 series by Prien and Rodeike the following redesignations were ordered:

10./JG 11 and 11./JG 11 redesignated 4./JG 11 on 15 August 1944 (the original 4./JG 11 became the new 8./JG 11)
7./JG 11 redesignated 10./JG 11 on 15 August 1944
8./JG 11 redesignated 11./JG 11 on 15 August 1944
9./JG 11 unchanged
2./JG 52 redesignated 12./JG 11 on 5 June 1944

So was 2./JG 52 redesignated 10./JG 11 as per the micro-films or 12./JG 11 as per Prien and Rodeike?

Horrido!

Leo

[ju55dk]

Prien is based on the original order in Bundesarchiv
Order to rename different Staffeln and set up of each Gruppe with four Staffeln was given 15 july 1944. End date of reorganization 20. august 1944. So here is goes. 10/JG 11 renamed 4/JG 11 moved to I/JG 11. 7/JG 11 is renamed 10/JG 11 and stays within III/JG 11. 8/JG 11 is renamed 11/JG 11 and 11/JG 11 renamed 13/JG 11. Both stays witin III/JG 11. 2/JG 52 renamed 12/JG 11

Junker

[Johannes]

Hi Leo

I don't know much about changing Staffel numbers. However the regular scorers of 2./JG52 were Dähne, Herbert Planer, Walter Jahnke and Alfons Klein, this went on until 29th May 1944 when the Staffel ceased claiming completely until 31st August 1944 when Rieckhoff, Farber and Trenkel become the regular scorers.
What of the previous regular claimers? Well they start claiming with 10./Jg11 from 26th June 1944.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Leo Etgen]

Hi guys

Yes, what confuses me is that it's quite obvious that 2./JG 52 became 10./JG 11 based on the micro-films but yet the official order was for 2./JG 52 to become 12./JG 11 so there are two primary sources contradicting each other. Quite the conundrum!

Horrido!

Leo