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  #11  
Old 26th April 2018, 09:42
lilsis lilsis is offline
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Re: A mysterious Bordbuch and unknown St.Kz. and Wnr.

Hello,

can it be that "Finke" Funke is?!
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  #12  
Old 26th April 2018, 10:24
RT RT is offline
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Re: A mysterious Bordbuch and unknown St.Kz. and Wnr.

Is it a fake ??

Rémi
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  #13  
Old 26th April 2018, 14:08
cbe2009 cbe2009 is offline
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Re: A mysterious Bordbuch and unknown St.Kz. and Wnr.

There is a lot of entries, that does not fit with what is known, at least by me.
Whether it's a fake or not, I haven't got a clue. Another reason for asking you guys for some assistance.
Here is a photo, where I have removed the Flug-/Bordbuch from its dust jacket.

Kind regards,

Christian
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Last edited by cbe2009; 3rd June 2019 at 22:28.
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  #14  
Old 26th April 2018, 15:05
Tom Willis Tom Willis is offline
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Re: A mysterious Bordbuch and unknown St.Kz. and Wnr.

Hi Christian - Thanks for sharing
First may I say this is only guess-work on my part and I do not want to upset you but only get to the truth of what is in the Flugbuch.
From what I can see and the clues that have been shown so far is the date from the original entries look like this was penned using the same style and ink with the name of Ing.Willy Funke - (01.02.43). But what makes me a little skeptical is the last entry date (20.09.44) pasted on to cover over what was possibly a different last entry date. There may have been only a few entries of the original book and I can only speculate that to sell the book on it was 'plumped' up with additional flights and information to give it more 'gravitas' so to speak.
Is it possible to see the earlier entries from page one to verify this as I am sure that he was originally attached to FFS(A)3. At least a cut-off point from what is correct historically can be detached from what may be false information.
Thanks again for the assistance and Regards
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  #15  
Old 26th April 2018, 15:37
JoMe JoMe is offline
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Re: A mysterious Bordbuch and unknown St.Kz. and Wnr.

Hi all, spec. Rasmussen

TG + E was actually a transfer number of the ATG aircraft plants.
Thus in the period between 1937-1939 Ju W 34, Ju 86 and He 111 B+H were so marked.
In 1941, this block was apparently issued again, as SKZ for
Ju 52/3m, WNr. 7263 - 7286 (= TG + EC - TG - EZ).

The logbook is very puzzling.
Thank you for the scans.

Best regards
JoMe
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  #16  
Old 26th April 2018, 18:06
lilsis lilsis is offline
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Re: A mysterious Bordbuch and unknown St.Kz. and Wnr.

not a soldier, the Bord buch have on front his personal Adress Willi Funke, Kamenz, Bautzener Straße 12 0<?

airfield Kamenz until 1942 it was used by training associations of the air force, there after it was a branch of Weser Flugzeugbau GmbH
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  #17  
Old 26th April 2018, 19:34
cbe2009 cbe2009 is offline
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Re: A mysterious Bordbuch and unknown St.Kz. and Wnr.

This is all very interesting and educating reading, thank you. So not offended in any ways!!!
I think it's easier if you see all the pages.

Kind regards,

Christian
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Last edited by cbe2009; 3rd June 2019 at 22:28.
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  #18  
Old 26th April 2018, 19:36
cbe2009 cbe2009 is offline
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Re: A mysterious Bordbuch and unknown St.Kz. and Wnr.

and the last.
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Last edited by cbe2009; 3rd June 2019 at 22:28.
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  #19  
Old 27th April 2018, 01:48
Gerhard Gerhard is offline
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Re: A mysterious Bordbuch and unknown St.Kz. and Wnr.

Christian
sorry for my late reply and many thanks for showing the Flugbuch pages.

The Flugbuch entries apparently were written down very carfully. So why should a test engineer (or "Prüfer") write down so much nonsense when it comes to regs and Wnrs?

The first 25 or so entries seem to match what is generally known, but after that things look strange. Why?

We do not (yet) know the solution to this mystery, but in my opinion there must exist an explanation. Any ideas appreciated.

Gerhard
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  #20  
Old 27th April 2018, 19:22
Tom Willis Tom Willis is offline
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Re: A mysterious Bordbuch and unknown St.Kz. and Wnr.

Hi all
As far as I see the entries from 1 to 24 are all historically correct and can be generally relied upon to be accurate.
From 25 to 84 are more contentious. No 25 is also accurate but the ones from 26 to the end are completely fictitious and made up.
Now I recently had an email from Tony Jones and he says that from mid 1944 entries in Flugbuchs etc were to scrambled and made up so that if these were captured would not be of use to Allied Intelligence in their use of captured Stkn/W/Nr to give accurate details of aircraft production.
I find this idea interesting and perplexing at the same time. I know that Stkz and W/Nr blocks were often split and mixed up to confuse Allied Intelligence but this is the first time that I have heard of this order or practice of doing the same with Flugbuchs but with made up information. Generally Flugbuchs (aswell as other documents) were never to be allowed on the aircraft with the pilot together. But rules can be and often ignored.
As far as I can tell Allied Intelligence had and would gather better and more reliable information from captured sources - Y service listening posts and crashed/captured material.
So is this idea correct? Although the info in the Flugbuch is useless historically but was it
put down in good faith as per orders. He was assigned to an upper-echelon RLM Unit which would more likely to be the first to adhere to 'new ideas'.
I have never seen this before in Flugbuchs - I have come across a few fakes that were made up for financial reasons to sell on Ebay.
Any ideas guys. I'll leave this up to you!
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