German raider boasts of machine-gunning English women?

[Bombphoon]

The 2012 book Soldaten by Sönke Neitzel and Harald Welzer, published by Simon & Schuster, uses the transcripts from the German POW cage at Trent Park, north of London. German POWs were secretly bugged to try and draw military intelligence. However, it soon became clear they were also providing confessions of war crimes. An excerpt states:

'We once made a low-level attack near Eastbourne,' recalled a pilot called von Greim. 'When we got there, we saw a large mansion where they seemed to be having a ball or something; in any case we saw a lot of women in fancy-dress, and an orchestra. We turned round and flew towards it. The first time, we flew past, and then we approached again and machine-gunned them. It was great fun!'

Does this incident or the pilot von Greim tally to known records? Although it could be from any time between 1940-1943, it sounds like a hit and run raider, possibly SKG10?

[Chris Goss]

Lt Hubert Von Greim of 6./JG 53 formerly 11./JG 2 POW 30 Dec 42 in North Africa?

[Bombphoon]

Thanks Chris. Trying to get my head around his journey - so, flew hit and run against UK south coast, then moved to North Africa, captured, then brought back to Trent Park?

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Bombphoon

Thanks Chris. Trying to get my head around his journey …

I don't have the book anymore but if it gives a reference for this statement (e.g. SRA followed by a number) then can find the file at TNA and it should say when your guy was shot down/captured, his unit, and when the conversation took place. Example attached from another report.

(Apologies if this is overkill for a simple bit of curiosity!)

[Jochen Prien]

I have my doubts that Hubert von Greim ever flew low level attacks against targets in England since - as far as I know - his first front line post was 11./JG2 in 1942, a special high altitude Staffel, which was amalgamated into II./JG53 in late 1942 in North Africa where he was captured on 30 December 1942 after having been shot down by Flak. There is no doubt however, that the German fighter bomber campaign against targets on the English coast in 1942/43 resulted in mostly pure and intentional terror attacks with little if any military sense.

KR

Jochen Prien

[Chris Goss]

No record of him with 10/JG 2 or 26. More likely he flew störangriff before 11/JG 2 went to North Africa & then became 6/JG 53

[Bombphoon]

A bit of scouting (cut and paste) online and in books:

It turns out Hubert von Greim was the only son of Robert Ritter von Greim (22 June 1892 – 24 May 1945), the German Field Marshal and First World War Flying ace. In April 1945, in the last days of World War II, Adolf Hitler appointed Greim Commander-in-chief of the Luftwaffe (German Air Force) after Hermann Göring had been dismissed for treason. After the surrender of Nazi Germany in May 1945, Greim was captured by the Allies. He committed suicide in an American-controlled prison on 24 May 1945.

"In late 1942, his only son, Hubert Greim, a fighter pilot with 11./JG 2 was listed as missing in Tunisia."

"von Greim a Bf-109 pilot with 11./JG 2 "Richthofen" was listed as missing in Tunisia. He was shot down by a Spitfire flown by a Royal Australian Air Force pilot, Flt.Lt. Robert Maxwell Brinsley, but bailed out and spent the remainder of the war in a prison camp in the United States."

"The young von Greim, of 6/JG53, had crash-landed at Tabarka after his Me109's cooling system was damaged in combat with RAF fighters on 31st December 1942. He was shot down, but bailed out and spent the remainder of the war in a prison camp in the United States.'

However, the Osprey book on Jagdgeschwader 2: 'Richthofen' solves it: in summer 1942, Hubert von Greim flew Fw190A-3 Stab JG2 from Triqueville, so it seems likely the machine-gunning incident mentioned was on a hit and run mission (presumably he was held at Trent Park before being sent to the US as a POW?) - but that leaves the mystery of where/when this incident happened 'near Eastbourne', which presumably, must have been witnessed by many?

[Col Bruggy]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

I don't have the book anymore but if it gives a reference for this statement (e.g. SRA followed by a number) then can find the file at TNA and it should say when your guy was shot down/captured, his unit, and when the conversation took place. Example attached from another report.

(Apologies if this is overkill for a simple bit of curiosity!)

Nick,

The source quoted for the von Greim comment is, SRA 828, 26 October 1940, TNA, WO 208/4120.

Col.

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi,

His name was Hubert Greim, not von Greim.

These secret recordings are sometimes a useful source, but at other times the Germans were simply boasting and telling tall tales. We came across this while researching our latest eArticle - the pilot was telling his captured colleagues a series of very unbelievable stories about his Luftwaffe career, which we could find no evidence for in German records (in contrast, his account of being shot down matched exactly with British combat reports).

According to his Flugbuch, Greim never flew any Jabo or strafing raids to England, and he served with the Geschwaderstab and 11. Staffel. Neither of those units were involved in tip-and-run operations, so it seems very likely this is a case of a pilot telling tall tales. However, as Jochen says, there were plenty of terror attacks in 1942 and 1943, so the kind of thing he described certainly did occur (as Luftwaffe Fighter-Bombers Over Britain by Chris Goss details on many occasions).

Hubert Greim passed away last year, on 14 October: https://trauer.sueddeutsche.de/todes...e/hubert-greim

Cheers,
Andrew A.

[Andrew Arthy]

Originally Posted by Col Bruggy

Nick,

The source quoted for the von Greim comment is, SRA 828, 26 October 1940, TNA, WO 208/4120.

Col.

Col,

I think you might have quoted the wrong reference. It should be S.R.A. 3691, dated 22 February 1943.

Cheers,
Andrew A.