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Old 19th September 2005, 21:16
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1th October 1938: Joint Polish-Nazi Germany aggression against Czechoslovakia

For a few days Poland we will be celebrating a 67 anniverary of joint Polish-Hitler agression against an innocent Czechoslovakia. As all we can remember III Reich under Adolf Hitler managed to force western democracies during Munchen Conference of Four Powers (Germany, Italy, GB and France) to allow annexation so called Sudeteland into Germany. Of course Hitler didn't want undermininig Czech Republic alone due to external propaganda purposes. Well, Poland provided the III Reich with a secret help in that situation. Because Poland and Germany were parties of mutual non-agression treaty signed in 1934 (similiar to the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact) there is clear Poland was a German secret anti-Czech ally in Eastern Europe. However Poland wasn't an equal party in Polish-German alliance because of country's backwardness, extreme poverty and military weakness. Poland was only a German puppet at those days. That is why Poland didn't become member of Munchen Conference. Polish quasi-fascist government called itself "sanacia" clique (lat. sanatio=state healing) headed by mythomaniacs like foreign minister Beck and marshall Shmygly-Rits could only quietly wait on conferention's results. When became obvious that Hitler gave western permission to cession of Sudetenland, Polish authorities immediately started a black propaganda campaign against Czechs. Polish newspapers were writing that Polish minority lived in part of Czech Republic called Cieshyn Silesia is persecuted, terrorized etc. Moreover Polish schools there supposedly have been fired and Polish young scouts have been shot by Czech police. Finally Poland demanded in ultimatum directed to Czech authorities an immediately cession of Cieshyn Silesia to Poland. At the same time Polish Army was mobilized and concentrated at Czech borders. When German Wehrmacht entered Sudetenland Polish governmet immediately ordered its troops to do the same! 2th October 1938 Poland illegally annexed a part of Czech Republic together with Hitler!
Of course Polish society didn't know anything about a real background of these events. Polish rulers simply cheated their nation about "Czech terror" to gain support for invasion identically as they cheated Polish people about real Polish strength and position in Europe. It is a good idea to mention about another Polish aggression against Czechoslovakia which took place in 1968. The scenario was almost identical except Nazi Germany was replaced by USSR as a Polish souseraine. In both cases Poland was simply a scapegrace of real European power who realized its policy. It is also a very funny that Poland apologized Czechs for 1968 invasion but it didn't do the same for 1938 incursion up to now!
Now some Polish hypocrites present on this forum try to convince us Ponad was always an innocent victim of foreign agression. It is a completely lie! During inter-war period Poland had a territorial claims to almost all its neighbours! As this history shows Poland could murder another country with Hitler only one year before the same Hitler attacked Poland itself! Mentioned above hypocrites still remind us a joint Hitler-Stalin agression against Poland in 1939. But if we only change Stalin with Beck, we shall see who was the FIRST German helper in Nazi agression against Europe!
Well, why now Poland propagate informations about its harms so loudly??? Though Polish nation wasn't alone who suffered a big losses during WW2. But I can't find on this forum posts created by Gipsies, Jews, Russians, Belarussian, Ukrainians or Yugoslovians about their sufferings. So, I think a real reason is that some nationalist circles in Poland stared an international black campain aimed at fooling a huge compensations from Germany, Russia and other post-Soviet states. The important part of these efforts is persuasion of wide public opinion that Poland always was a saint and respectable country which never did anything wrong to others. But a historical reality is a much more complex and thus unfavourable for Poland. In short when Poland was a real European power in XVI-XVIIth century, it conquered Eastern European territories and used a wide range of terror to subjugate natives. But later Polad weaken because of its inabilty to become a modern state. Thus anarchic Poland fallen in the XVIIIth century and Polish people became a servants of their new rulers (Russia, Austria and Prussia). That is a key period in understanding of present Polish mentality. Simply Polish people have a great claim to other states because of their indifference on Polish bad fate but they forget about Polish vices which primarly lead to Poland's downfall. Therefore Poland always consider itself as a center of world. Only a Polish interests must be taken into account by other states. Of course in real politics every country treats its interest as most important. If Polish and other goals are crashed and Poland lose due to Polish objective weakness, mentioned above Polish egoism becomes stronger and stronger. And because Poland suffered almost exclusively losses in the past 300 years, everybody can see Polish megalomania must be now higher than Mt. Everest. Moreover this megalomania leads to overestimating of real Poland's power and to the next defeats and disillusionments. In that way Poland became a hostage and victim of its own paranoia. Remember about it when you are reading a next part of "Polish Chronicle" on this forum!
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Last edited by Obst. Zerstorer; 19th September 2005 at 21:59.
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Old 19th September 2005, 21:57
Mazila Mazila is offline
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Re: 1th October 1938: Joint Polish-Nazi Germany aggression against Czechoslovakia

Obst. Zerstorer

Thanks, personally I found your post quite comprehensive, although it might be a little bit unpolite
But I could say the same about polish posts on this forum
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Old 19th September 2005, 22:08
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Re: 1th October 1938: Joint Polish-Nazi Germany aggression against Czechoslovakia

Great thanks Mazila!

I decided not to discuss my and their posts with Polish guys on this forum. But if they still write posts about one-sided view on Polish history, I will always describe you some less glorious and perhaps funny facts from Polish history. To save equality and objectivity of opinions, of course!

Regards

Zerstorer
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Last edited by Obst. Zerstorer; 19th September 2005 at 22:15.
  #4  
Old 19th September 2005, 22:39
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: 1th October 1938: Joint Polish-Nazi Germany aggression against Czechoslovakia

Huh, my gosh, it is no wonder you afraid to reveal your name!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obst. Zerstorer
For a few days Poland we will be celebrating a 67 anniverary of joint Polish-Hitler agression against an innocent Czechoslovakia. As all we can remember III Reich under Adolf Hitler managed to force western democracies during Munchen Conference of Four Powers (Germany, Italy, GB and France) to allow annexation so called Sudeteland into Germany.
It is good you have noted that it was not a Polish initiative and that it was an agreement between powers and not Poland.
It is bad, that you have not noted, that Czechoslovakia illegally annexed the same area back in 1920 when Poland was at war with the Soviet Russia.
Otherwise, it was a strategic move, that did not allow Germany to overtake coal mines in the area. This substantially reduced German industrial activity in Czechoslovakia.

Quote:
Polish quasi-fascist government called itself "sanacia" clique (lat. sanatio=state healing) headed by mythomaniacs like foreign minister Beck and marshall Shmygly-Rits could only quietly wait on conferention's results.
I am not sure if quasi-fascist is a reference to a Fascist Italy or to the Nasi Germany. Anyway, there were no concentration camps in Poland, there was no racial segregation and no human experiments. If those men are to be called mythomaniacs because they said "no" to both criminal Soviet and German regimes, then sorry.

Quote:
It is a good idea to mention about another Polish aggression against Czechoslovakia which took place in 1968. The scenario was almost identical except Nazi Germany was replaced by USSR as a Polish souseraine.
It is a nonsense. The only aggressive country was the Soviet Union. It used troops of other countries like Poland or East Germany only to make an impression of international support. Neither of the countries should be considered independent, as well seen by the reaction for the LA Olympic Games in 1984. Scenario was also completely different as were the goals.
Finally, in my opinion, Poland should not apologise for the intervention. It should for any bad deeds by the Polish soldiers but nothing more. On the other hand, Poland should support any Czechoslovak claims toward Russia as a successor of the SU.

Quote:
During inter-war period Poland had a territorial claims to almost all its neighbours!
Germany did as well. The difference is that we did not mass murder people because of that.

Quote:
But I can't find on this forum posts created by Gipsies, Jews, Russians, Belarussian, Ukrainians or Yugoslovians about their sufferings.
They are always welcomed.

Quote:
So, I think a real reason is that some nationalist circles in Poland stared an international black campain aimed at fooling a huge compensations from Germany, Russia and other post-Soviet states.
Actually, it was Germany who started the issue of compensations for expulsions. Now their pants are full of s**t, because Poland finally calculated their wartime losses in hard bucks.

Quote:
In short when Poland was a real European power in XVI-XVIIth century, it conquered Eastern European territories and used a wide range of terror to subjugate natives.
This resulted with White Russians speaking White Russian, Ukrainians speaking Ukrainian and Jewes speaking Yiddish in the Polish territiories. What had happenned with minorities in tolerant Germany and Russia?

Finally, about Polish (so also mine ) megalomania. Read the great Nietsche! It says it all!
  #5  
Old 19th September 2005, 22:51
Mazila Mazila is offline
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Re: 1th October 1938: Joint Polish-Nazi Germany aggression against Czechoslovakia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski
It is bad, that you have not noted, that Czechoslovakia illegally annexed the same area back in 1920 when Poland was at war with the Soviet Russia.
Otherwise, it was a strategic move, that did not allow Germany to overtake coal mines in the area. This substantially reduced German industrial activity in Czechoslovakia.
It's a moment of truth!

You see all territories "liberated" by USSR in September 1939 were annexed in 1920s by Poland after the aggressive war with Russia.
Otherwise, it was a strategic move, that did not allow Germany to be too close to Moscow

Franek you are using the same propaganda cliche (pardon my french) as the Soviets

Q. E. D

P.S. There is no White Russia, Belorussia only. And belorussians speak belorussian.

Last edited by Mazila; 19th September 2005 at 22:57.
  #6  
Old 19th September 2005, 23:11
John Beaman John Beaman is offline
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Re: the end of this mess!

I am quite tired of these meaningless personal attacks by certain posters. These forums are about aviation and general WWII questions. Please stick to those and avoid personal attacks on those with whom you disagree. This has no place. Stick to documentable facts.

If you do not like this policy or cannot do this and display simple courtesy, do not come back. Eventually you will be banned. This is not a site for personal grudges about who has wronged the world or any particular ethnic group.
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