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Old 22nd January 2005, 14:08
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Stuka in Aeroplane II/05. Nice Story and Plenty Errors!

Ref: Ju 87 Stuka in Aeroplane of February 2005. Nice story with plenty fundamental errors.

Dear aviation hobbies this month was edited in Aeroplane Monthly (2/2005) a nice cover story about Ju 87 written by dr Alfred Price. Probably many of you are reading/knowing this magazine so he is well knows for you. Many of you are real passionate, funs of “black-crosses in WWII” and Ju 87 too. I have decided to make some correction the text dr Alfred Price seeing how much false and wrong information have been given by him in rather short and simple text. Story looks very nice (photos, drawings, general loyaut) but the text does not deserve for such applause presenting rather lack of professionalism, a pattern of intellectual liaises, thinking and simple lack of respect for common readers. If you find in this text any additional comments, errors let me know we all will have a nice enjoy.

Page 71. The production of Ju 87 had lasted not as author had written until September 1944 but up to the November/December 1944.
P.75. The first attack of Ju 87 B of I/StG 1 was as the author written on the bridge over Vistula river near Tczew (in German - Dirchau). Tczew was a Polish border town since 1918 and on 1 IX 1939 was also on the Polish part of territory. Then it was German name Dirchau as it was before 1918. Since IX 1939 to I 1945 was again under German occupation and name and after 1945 again was Tczew.
The bridge was blow up by Polish soldiers commanded by
Second less knows Ju 87 Stuka operation done in the same time as the attack on the Tczew bridge was annihilation of Polish town Wieluń (about 80-100 km from the German-Polish border. When the 3 Ju 87s were going to attack the bridge on the south-western part of Poland there was also flying a formation of 62 Ju 87 from I/StG 76 (Hptm Walter Sigel) and I/StG 77 (Hptm Friedrich-Karl Freiherr von Dalwigk zu Lichtenfels). The aim of this bomber force was a town (16.000 inhabitants were living there) where German had expected to find and destroy a Polish cavalry brigade (they had got such information). The whole formation flow over the border at 4.30 a.m. and at 4.42 or 4.40 the crew dropped the bombs on Wieluń (17 Stukas bombed a good marked town hospital, on the roofs were painted big red cross). During this attack German had dropped 380 bombs - about 46 tons of explosive. On the afternoon was the second German air attack against this town. In this both air action Wielun was destroyed in about 70-75% and the Centrum of Wieluń was destroyed in 90% - was almost whipped out and burned to the ground. In fact there were no any Polish military units, no a/a battery – nothing military – in Wieluń. After this attack German had claimed of distraction in Wiluń one Polish cavalry brigade (this was a false information). No any Polish cavalry brigade was destroyed on 1 IX or later by any single or mass air attack. In reality the first Stukas attack had killed about 1.200 (yes 1.200) innocent civilian no armed people (women, children, old people). Wieluń was as we may call it a Polish Guernica only knows for Poles.
P.76. ORP Mazur (about 400 ton) was sunk on 1 IX 1939, destroyer ORP Wicher (1 KIA about 20 WIA) and mine-layer ORP Gryf on 3 IX 39 at 15.00. The last two ships were sunk by well executed mission of 12 Ju 87 B, C from 4./ T.Gr 186.
P.76. There were not any destroyed on the ground of Polish military air force units all our air force were dispersed and well hidden on the field airfields 28-31 VIII. The Luftwaffe attack destroyed tens of Polish civil, training planes in many well know for German airfields.
P.76. Authors’ fragment: “The Polish forces lacked sufficient anti-aircraft guns to protect their vulnerable areas”. This is not true statement, a few pages later the author present photos of Bofors 40 mm guns calling it - “Nemesis of the Stuka” with the comment “A potent answer to the dive-bomber was the fast-firing medium-caliber a/a guns, in this case the 40 mm Bofors used by British force”. In the mid 1935 Polish army had bought a license for the mass production of exactly Swedish Bofors 40 mm a/a guns (and also 37 mm anti tank gun too). Polish army had in the service about more then 300 (yes 300) Bofors a/a 40 mm guns before the war. There were also old French 75 Schneider (more then 100 guns from WW I period) and about 36 Polish modern 75 Starachovice a/a artillery (constructed on 1936). The most total losses made to the Luftwaffe force was done exactly by our a/a force. From about 150-180 totally lost in combat planes (over 60% of damages - written off) fighter counted about 51-55 (or about 100, other sources) the rest was done by Polish a/a guns. In fact we did have enough Bofors a/a guns and medium a/a wz. 36 Starachowice 75 mm guns. By the way, before the war United Kingdom had bought from Poland 150 Bofors 40 mm a/a guns. So as it is seen the level of knowledge concerning Polish a/a potential is rather far away form the true and any logic. I had done about ten years ago an interview with one of Polish anti-aircraft battery commander who personally introduced the Bofors 40 mm a/a to Polish army. He had commanded 8 A/A Motorized Battery (4x40 mm guns). His units since 1 IX up to 29 IX 1939 in the defense of the Modlin fortress was credited with 24 shot down German planes (about 70-80% of its claims are matched with German total losses). The whole story written by my was edited in 2001 in Poland.
P.76. Polish Government never capitulated on 27 September 1939 as author strong still believes in 2005 in Aeroplane Montly! This is real shocking information for me and for Poles. This is having the same values as a following “British Government had capitulated on the Dunkirk beaches in June 1940”. Fact is following on 17/18 IX 1939 after Soviet invasion on Poland on 17 IX 1939 whole Polish government, the chief commander of whole military force marshal Rydz Smigly and Polish president Ignacy Moscicki had crossed Polish-Rumanian border and were interned by Rumanian. All power insignia, nomination were by the official way handed over from Rumania to France to create the new Polish government on exile (gen. Sikorski, president Raczkiewicz). So all Polish authorities in France, in the Great Britain were successors of legal Polish government and legal president before 1 IX 39 (Gen. Sikorski, was a 1st minister and chief of whole Polish army). Probably for Mr. Price could be shocking the news that in Great Britain were several combat squadrons which 2 fighters had fought in Battle of Britain (Polish 302. and 303. Fighter Squadron). These airmen were subordinated under legal Polish government on the exile which never, I say never, capitulated before Germany or Soviet as would like to see the author. This is very offensive, false statement made by Alfred Price towards Poland presenting absolutely false vision of WW II and Polish part in it!
In fact on 28 IX had surrendered Polish capitol - Warsaw, next day on 29 IX had surrendered the Modlin fortress, on 2 IX surrendered Hel peninsula, and the last one surrender was on 5 X 1939 when capitulated Independent Army Group “Polesie” (about 15.000 Polish soldiers). But never capitulated any Polish government, president and commander chief of Polish Army and the whole Poland too as would like to see Mr Price. We, Poles had fought against German and Soviet since 1 IX 1939 and up to 1945 and never give up. Probably for the author is unknown that in Great Britain were during WW II Polish Army and Polish Air Force (fighter and bomber squadron).
During the war in Poland all total losses from all cases in Ju 87 units were in fact very small - 31 dive bombers.
P.77. Text Stuka operators. Ju 87 was sold to: Hungary (about 70), Italy (about 150), Rumania, (about 170), Bulgaria, Slovakia and the last one was used by Russian ROA unit. Croatia never did use any Ju 87 (they had of course had the Stukas but there was not Ju 87 but Fieschler Fi 167 dive bomber – first planed to used on the carrier Graf Zepellin).
On the photos of Hungarian Ju 87 Doras is a photo from 1943 exactly presenting the formation from 2/2 Zubo Szazad – (had on the beginning 11 Ju 87 Dora-3 + 1 Dora-5) in combat flight. There was the first Hungarian combat dive bomber units which operated on the Eastern Front (V-VIII 1943). It has never happed that during combat action any dive-bomber unit did use a mixture of Antons, Bertas, Doras. So on the presented photos flying only Doras and in the middle is not any Berta - (fault probably is coming from Peter C. Smith book about Ju 87 p. 129. I have never heard of using in any RAF’s squadron a Spitifre Mk 1 and Mk V (or Hurricane I and II) in the same time in any combat unit over the front. Hungarian did use Antosn and Bertas only for training but never in combat.
P.77. Rumanian ARR had 2 dive-bomber groups: Grupul 3 picaj and Grupul 6 picaj. Both with 3 escadrila-squadron. The Grupul 3 picaj between Jun 1943 and Aug 1944 had received from German stock exactly 113 Ju 87 Doras. The Grupul 6 picaj created in 1944 had received only in 1944 from German the next 55 Ju 87 Doras. ARR had received 168 Ju 87 Doras in 1943 and 1944. BTW the Rumanian was also the last combat force operated Ju 87 by day. Their last daily combats mission against former Ally were done on 5 May 1945.
On the photo is flying Ju 87 Dora-3 from Escadrila 73 picaj of Grupul 3 picaj from about mid August 1943 fighting on the Eastern Front over Crime.
P.78. Regia Aeronautica had received in August 1940 from Germany the first Ju 87 Berta-2 and Richard-2 (was created 236a and 237 Squadrligia of 96o Gruppo BaT). The first combat operation of Italian Ju 87 was done on 2 IX 1940 against Malta convoy.
P.79 On the first day of Barbarossa on 22 June 1941 Luftwaffe and Rumanian units (ARR) had attacked 66 airfields according the Soviets side - not during the first days of war as was written by author. On 22 VI many airfields near the border (5-30 km form the border line) were overrun by fast moving German troops, especially on the Soviet North-Western and Western Front.
P.79. German used two kinds of SD small fragmentation bomb - SD-2 (2kg) and SD-10 (10 kg). Both were used on Ju 87 and other combat planes (Me 109, Me 110, Ju 88, He 111). The problems with SD-2 bombers happened on the containers used by horizontal bombers (Ju 88 and Do 215) two such bombers exploded in air without any enemy action on 22 VI 1941. Gen Kesserling immediately ordered to stop use SD-2 bombs in all air forces to investigate the reason of this explosion. It was faults of SD containers installed on the horizontal bombers, later both SD-2, SD-10 were again used by bomber and dive forces. First recorded instance of SD 2s over the UK was in Suffolk on 27 Oct. 1940. Several aircraft made low-level cloud-cover sorties in the Ipswich/Martlesham Heath area.
On 22 Jun 1941 over Russia among 78 planes lost in combat and none combat action there was only 2 Ju 87.
P.84. Ju 87 had started the WW II on land (and also terror war against civil as was in Wieluń). Closing this material as a summery I say: Ju 87 was also the last combat plane which was used in operation. Communist air forces (NOVJ- Tito’s air forces) had captured and repaired in February 1945 a single Ju 87 Berta. This plane had made the last operational mission against German troops who refused to surrender to communist partisans. This last daily combat mission was done on 28 May 1945. This NOVJ captured Ju 87 Berta bombed German, plane was escorted also by captured Me 109 G-10.
So the II WW in Europe was began by Ju 87s and was finished in Europe by Ju 87 too.

Author is a aviation military who published 2 books (Regia Aernautca and Hawker Hurricane in Foreign Service: Belgian, Finnish, German Italy, Yugoslavia, Rumania, Soviet Union users in WW II) He hase published about 30 stories about air war since 1936 up to late 1940.
His third book, not yet published, will be edit in 2005. It is about “Ju 87 in Luftwaffe Ally Service (Italy, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgarian, Slovak, ROA and other strange service users)”. Book will have about 100 b&w photos about 40 color drawings and will be 100% English. Her editor is Model Mushroom Publication).
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Old 23rd January 2005, 18:40
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Small correction to the last tekst.

Ref: P.77. Text Stuka operators. Ju 87 was sold to: Hungary (about 70), Italy (about 150), Rumania, (about 170), Bulgaria, Slovakia and the last one was used by Russian ROA unit. Croatia never did use any Ju 87 (they had of course had the Stukas but there was not Ju 87 but Fieschler Fi 167 dive bomber – first planed to used on the carrier Graf Zepellin).
On the photos of Hungarian Ju 87 Doras is a photo from 1943 exactly presenting the formation from 2/2 Zubo Szazad – (had on the beginning 11 Ju 87 Dora-3 + 1 Dora-5) in combat flight. There was the first Hungarian combat dive bomber units which operated on the Eastern Front (V-VIII 1943). It has never happed that during combat action any dive-bomber unit did use a mixture of Antons, Bertas, Doras. So on the presented photos flying only Doras and in the middle is not any Berta - (fault probably is coming from Peter C. Smith book about Ju 87 p. 129. I have never heard of using in any RAF’s squadron a Spitifre Mk 1 and Mk V (or Hurricane I and II) in the same time in any combat unit over the front. Hungarian did use Antosn and Bertas only for training but never in combat.

Correction
In my last post I have made en error. There is in fact on a photo in Aeroplane 2/05 p. 77 a flight of Ju 87s were among Ju 87 Dora-5 is flying a single Ju 87 Berta (-1 or -2). This photo was done during the training of the second tour of Hungarian Stuka pilot done in May 1944 in Hungary (Kolozsvar). Hungarian had received 12 new Dora-5 (code B.701-B.712) in May 1944 and began to train on Stukas. This flying formation is from 102/2 zb squadron and was send on the Eastern Front in June 1944 and went into battle since 30 June up to the end of July 1944 with III/St. G 77. Hungarian fought over south east part of Poland. On the front there were no Bertas and Antons in Hungarian Stuka unit, which were used only for training in Hungary (among Stukas were old one with no B.601, B.605, B.606 +others). Sorry for this errors which have raised from wrong reading the description of very similar photos (“among Doras is flying a Ju 87 with the code B.6+41” - which is form first tour of Hungarian crew fight on the Ukraine in 1943 in 2/2 zubo squadron since August to October 1943). Hungarian did not have chance to fly in combat a mix version of Bertas, Doras, but they did it during the training at homeland which is seen on photos.

Sorry for this confusion.

Regards,
Mirek Wawrzyński
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Old 24th January 2005, 00:41
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George Hopp George Hopp is offline
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Aeroplane -- Stuka article

Thank you, Mirek, for taking the time and effort to make the corrections to the article that you did. There is still much we don't know about various battles in World War II-- especially in Poland -- thank you again for giving us more knowledge about that.
George
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Old 25th January 2005, 04:04
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Dr Prince also wrote a book, with Mike Spick, on 5 famous...

aircraft of World War 2. I don't know about the accuracy of the stories on the other aircraft, but the one on the Bf 109 is a flashback to William Green and 1970! In fact, they show a Beulen 109 with a tall tail and short tail wheel strut, and call it a 109K. They also mention that its cowling armament is "two 15 mm cannons." Perhaps other parts of the story are better, but that thingie on the 109K has sort of put me off reading it.
George
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Old 25th January 2005, 12:04
Tony Williams Tony Williams is offline
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I picked out some more mistakes in the article on the Ju 87G:

The 37mm guns were available with 8 and 12-round clips as well as the standard AA 6-rounders.

The guns didn't normally fire HE and HEI ammo as he said, but APHE or AP.40 Hartkernmunition.

I sent an email to the editor on the subject - I think he's putting it in the next issue.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum
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Old 25th January 2005, 12:48
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Csaba B. Stenge Csaba B. Stenge is offline
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Mirek,

thanks for your efforts but IMHO you should post the reviews and corrections exactly to the review section - Ruy did that section exactly for this kind of posts, I guess (but here more fellows read it )
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Old 25th January 2005, 17:47
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Stuka

I've seen the article and noted the cut away diagram and a caption for one of the photos in which the wind driven generators on the undercarriage legs are noted as being sirens.I'm a volounteer at the RAF museum where there is a Ju87 on display,the question as to wether the Ju87 was fitted with sirens arises frequently and the consensus of opinion amongst the restoration team is that they weren't fitted,so what is the answer?. I'd be very interested to hear the views of the experten on this,as my team leader is due to write to the magazine to argue this point and apparently one of the high ups on the museum staff is adamant that sirens were fitted.
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Old 25th January 2005, 18:40
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Sirens on Ju 87s

You asked an interesting question, Mike, in that I'm sure many of us have just assumed those propeller thingies on the u/c fairing were, in fact, air-driven sirens. But, since you did ask the question, I did some research on it.

In the Ju 87 D-1 manual of May 1942 I found the following: "To increase the noise (howling) during a diving attack, sirens are mounted on the left and right u/c fairings. They are powered by wind-driven-propeller generators.

"They are switched on and off electro-hydraulically. ... The sirens should be switched on before the dive commences, i.e. before the dive brakes are extended. ... They should be switched off after the conclusion of the dive and after the aircraft has slowed to 320kph."
Hope this helps,
George
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Old 25th January 2005, 22:50
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Hi George,That's brilliant,just what I was looking for,I'll pass on the contents of your post to my team leader.I had intended getting hold of an Erzatzteilliste for the JU87 to check myself,but you've saved me the trouble,all the best,Mike.
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Old 26th January 2005, 00:52
DaveM2 DaveM2 is offline
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Re: Dr Prince also wrote a book, with Mike Spick, on 5 famou

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Hopp
aircraft of World War 2. I don't know about the accuracy of the stories on the other aircraft, but the one on the Bf 109 is a flashback to William Green and 1970! In fact, they show a Beulen 109 with a tall tail and short tail wheel strut, and call it a 109K. They also mention that its cowling armament is "two 15 mm cannons." Perhaps other parts of the story are better, but that thingie on the 109K has sort of put me off reading it.
George
I was thinking the same, I have a few books done by Price I bought in the seventies, and am wondering if they are just extracts taken from what he wrote on the subjects from back then, with no updated info included.

Dave
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