Heavy Flak - 88 or 105 mm heavy guns

[Jerome Ribeiro]

Hello Everyone,

During the Sitzkrieg then the Blitzkrieg, plenty of french bombers were shooted down by the heavy Flak unit equipped with with heavy guns (88 or 105 mm).

I need you support re the heavy guns utilized by the Flak at this time. Does anyone has photos or documentations especially on the caracteristics of the 88 and mostly the 105 mm gunneries?

Thanking you in anticipation
Regards

[Boomerang]

Numerically, the 88mm flak was available in significantly larger numbers than the 105mm flak eg see:

http://www.feldgrau.com/weaprod.html

According to a very old reference (Sweetman, Schweinfurt Disaster in the Skies) for the Flak 38 105 mm weapon weight of shell = 25 kg, muzzle velocity = 870 m/sec, range = 40,000 feet, rate of fire = 12 rounds per minute.

Not a lot to go on, but perhaps the above could be a starting point.

Regards

Boomerang

[Ruy Horta]

Was the 8.8 regarded as heavy FlaK, or medium?

[Nick Beale]

You'd find a lot of the answers in Edward Westerman's "Flak: German Anti-Aircraft Defenses, 1914–1945". University of Kansas 2001 (ISBN 0-7006-1420-6) now in soft cover as well.

Be warned however: I found this is a turgid and repetitive book (how many times per page can an author refer to "the german ground-based air defences" without driving his readers nuts?) but if you can wade through the verbal treacle, there are some useful data about guns here and there.

My other complaint (and Rabe Anton will hate me for this!) is that it's a book written by a professional historian bringing his academic technique to a field in which he doesn't have the background knowledge that a Luftwaffe/air warfare specialist would have. He dismissed the 1940 Blitzkrieg in about two sentences for example. Also, don't expect anything like an order of battle (IIRC he doesn't name a single Flak Division). All you get are total numbers of different weapons in service at particular points.

[Jerome Ribeiro]

All,

Thanks for your information provided on Flak weapons, especially those on the 105mm.

What stands for the suffixe number 38 just after the Flak eg 105mm Flak 38 and 39 or 88mm Flak 18, 36 and 38?
Is the model or the year of 1st batch of production?

cheers

Jerome

[Nick Beale]

AFAIK it's just a model number. You see the same thing with tank guns and artillery pieces.

[George Hopp]

There is an excellent book on the subject entitled "Flak" by H.A. Koch, printed in 1965 in German.

And, yes, the 18, 36, 37, etc. numbers after the calibre appear to indicate the year of introduction of that particular model. In the above book, page 41, it states: "The 8,8 cm-Flak 18 in its improved form reached the forces as 8,8 cm-Flak 36 (1937 with further technical improvements as 8,8 cm-Flak 37) and became the standard weapon of the heavy batteries."

[Tony Williams]

There was some inconsistency over the German numbering system. They were restricted in developing new armaments after WW1, so up to the mid-30s often gave a spurious number like "18" to indicate that it had been developed during WW1 and was therefore permitted. In fact, the 8,8cm Flak 18 entered service in 1933, the Flak 36 was a modified version which came out three years later, the Flak 37 a further modification.

There were two very different 8,8cm Flak: the 18, 36 and 37 family all fired the same ammunition, the 41 fired much more powerful ammunition giving it a greater effective altitude.

The basic figures are these:

8,8 cm Flak 18, 36, 37: 9.4 kg shell at 820 m/s, effective ceiling 8,000 m

8,8, cm Flak 41: 9.4 kg at 1,000 m/s, effective ceiling 10,675 m

10,5 cm Flak 38, 39: 14.8 kg at 881 m/s, effective ceiling 9,450 m

All data from Hogg's 'German Artillery of WW2'.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

[George Hopp]

There was some inconsistency over the German numbering system. They were restricted in developing new armaments after WW1, so up to the mid-30s often gave a spurious number like "18" to indicate that it had been developed during WW1 and was therefore permitted.

As I recall the original 88 did come out in 1918. So as I said above, the numbering appears to reflect the year the weapon became operational.

[Tony Williams]

Originally Posted by George Hopp

As I recall the original 88 did come out in 1918. So as I said above, the numbering appears to reflect the year the weapon became operational.

88mm had been a common German gun calibre for a long time - the first one being introduced in 1873. There were indeed 88mm guns in use during WW1, but the Flak 18 owed nothing to them. Its development was started in 1925, and the gun and ammunition were quite different from earlier guns - the only thing it shared in common was the calibre.

Similarly, the Luftwaffe's standard 7.9mm aircraft MGs at the start of WW2, the MG 15 and MG 17, were both 1930s developments. In contrast, the Army's MG 34 and MG 42 did reflect the dates of introduction.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum