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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

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Old 15th February 2008, 15:18
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Luftwaffe Escape and Evasion

I believe there were over 2,000 US airmen that crossed the Pyrenees going back to Allied territory. Were there any Luftwaffe airmen that crossed them back into German occupied territory? I realize there was the French underground to help the Allied airmen and I do not think there was such a vast group available to any Luftwaffe pilot shot down over the other side but I am curious if any of them ever made it back from Allied occupied territory.

Thank you in advance,
Brian
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Old 15th February 2008, 17:14
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Re: Luftwaffe Escape and Evasion

Brian: Bit of a strange question. There was no need for Germans to evade from the Spanish whilst Allied aircrew had to evade from German and Vichy forces. Any Germans that landed in Spain were repatriated in due course
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Old 15th February 2008, 17:21
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Re: Luftwaffe Escape and Evasion

Nd that's why it's so easy for the allied crews to cross the Pyrenées, nobody obstruct the way coming from the other side.
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Old 15th February 2008, 18:26
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Re: Luftwaffe Escape and Evasion

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my question.
Does anyone have any information about Luftwaffe pilots that were shot down over Allied territories and escaped back to Axis controlled territories?
I was trying to use the Pyrenees as an example of an extreme journey that some made.

Thanks.
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Old 15th February 2008, 18:32
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Re: Luftwaffe Escape and Evasion

Franz Von Werra was the only one who escaped and made it back (before US enetered the war) although many others tried. Those shot down behind Allied lines in the desert or Normandy 1944 and who made it back are harder to ascertain. Russia was a different matter
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Old 15th February 2008, 20:12
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Re: Luftwaffe Escape and Evasion

Von Werra was quite a story wasn't it?!! That's what I was looking for, thank you!

Were Russia and the desert more difficult to research because of the closeness of the fighting and soldiers could find their comrades relatively 'easy'?
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Old 16th February 2008, 15:16
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Re: Luftwaffe Escape and Evasion

13th August 1942. Bf 110 F-2, LN+MR, of 13.(Z)/JG5 piloted by Lt. von rabenau was shot down over Russian lines. Bordfunker Uffz. Karl-Fritz Schröder baled out behind Russian lines and eventually returned to the German lines on 16th August 1942. Eric Mombeek's 'Eismeerjäger, Band 1' gives the full account. Not an escape, but definitely an evasion.
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Old 17th February 2008, 19:03
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Re: Luftwaffe Escape and Evasion

I am investigating one off the better escape and evasion story of the Luftwaffe told by the German captain himself at Uniklinik, Freiburg when a group of four managed to get out of Iceland after a He 111 was hit by AA fire over Reykjavík airport mars, 19th 1941. They where running around the south of Iceland untill out of the country by the only ship sailing to Spain that year, april the 5th to be precise. This story is unbelivable as the four of them split up two and two. The crew is belived to be from/operated for Fliegerfuhrer Atlantik as KG26. Stab. Fliegerfuhrer Nord out of Norway. Værnæs.
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Old 19th February 2008, 17:38
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Re: Luftwaffe Escape and Evasion

George
Your story does not make sense. The desk suggests it was a court, thus a paperwork should exist, so it must have been known and accepted by Allied command. It is unlikely if not impossible. Most of PoWs execution were on the spot, in the heat of combat, just like a well known execution at Dachau performed by GIs. There is still standing question, where, when, and where are the bodies. And I am curious if your friend mentioned any executions by Canadians?

Sylvester
The question is very simple - what is the origin of Stahlschmidt's account. Christopher Shores is no God and has no monopoly on truth, and neither provides answer for the question nor verify it with other sources. Your question on what is the difference between propaganda account and a report is rather naive to say the least. By the nature, propaganda distorts the reality either to support own morale or to scare people to increase their efficiency. Every propaganda account, and German and Soviet in particular are highly suspicious and should be always verified against other sources.
Your note about Stahlschmidt being not fit to fly and send to Germany is only a supposition of yours and not based on any grounds. The same about your 'evidence' of crimes against German civilian population. The trick is that the German civilian population was armed, and in Bydgoszcz/Bromberg it attacked Polish troops inflicting serious losses. Also, in parallel, there were several brute attacks on Polish civilian population on the area. There are reports of numerous German agents smuggled to Poland and photographs of their equipment, so you cannot claim it is a Polish invention. You also fail to note numerous crimes committed by the German troops, in particular infamous 4 Panzer Division, which in eagerness even shot their own.
One more thing that makes the difference between Germans and Allies. Those were decisions on the highest levels of German government to mistreat Allied airmen, and not only some trigger happy soldiers, who could act in some emotion.
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Old 19th February 2008, 18:59
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Re: Luftwaffe Escape and Evasion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski View Post
Those were decisions on the highest levels of German government to mistreat Allied airmen, and not only some trigger happy soldiers, who could act in some emotion.
Can you document this ?

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