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  #1  
Old 22nd February 2012, 13:23
keith A keith A is offline
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213 Squadron in July and September 1944

I am looking for the missing claimants for 213 Squadron for the action on 8 September 1944. On that date 2 He111 and a Go242 were shot down. One of the Heinkels by FL CDA Smith and the glider shared between Lt RE Rorvik and another pilot. I know that Lts Vorster and Moore were part of the flight and that therefore they are the missing names but does anyone know exactly the details?

My other question is concerning the squadron aerial victories. Using all the sources (including the squadron history) I can only locate claims on 7-2-5 In July 1944 (the squadron scoreboard shows 8-2-3 which is confusing, and meaning that at probably one of the damaged claims was upgraded), and the war total indicates 27-4-7 of which I can find 24-4-7.

regards

Keith
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Old 22nd February 2012, 16:13
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: 213 Squadron in July and September 1944

Hi Keith

It's me again!

This is what I have:

15/7/44: S/L Whiting, F/O R Anthony, W/O DE Cooke, W/O KAL Ford
claimed 4 s/e biplanes

20/7/44: S/L JR Whiting Bf109, Hs126, Bf109 probable, Hs126 damaged;
W/O DE Cooke Bf109 probable, 2 Hs126 damaged; W/O JPG Watkins 2 Bf109 damaged.

30/7/44: F/L CS Vos & 2/Lt SW Pienaar SAAF shared SM79

These totals agree with your assessment.

However, for 8/9/44 in addition to 2 He111, Go242 (plus Go242 on the ground) I have a Ju52 shot down

I also have an Hs126 shot down by 2/Lt Rorvik on 7/9/44.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Brian
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Old 23rd February 2012, 09:05
keith A keith A is offline
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Re: 213 Squadron in July and September 1944

Blimey mate we have defo got too much time on our hands!

I have Spenser Whiting claiming 2 on 15/7/44 and no mention of Ford.

The Ju52 is a bit of a mystery. In the accounts I have seen they only state they attacked it. No mention of what happened. Like you I have assumed they shot it down but neither Smith nor Rorvik have it listed in their totals. That leaves the two others in the flight, Vorster and Moore, to make the claims. This means possibly three victories with missing or partial claimants on that date!

Your other details match mine.

cheers,

Keith
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  #4  
Old 3rd March 2012, 04:46
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
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Re: 213 Squadron in July and September 1944

The Hornet Strikes: The Story of No.213 Squadron RAF by Frank Leeson confirms all the claims mentioned by Brian.

More details on September 1944 claims:

06.09.44:
3 x Bf 110s destroyed [one shared by F/L C.D.A. Smith & Lt. V. Vorster (SAAF); one each by W/O F. G. Pickford and Sgt. D. E. Firman]

07.09.44:
Hs 126 [Lt. R. E. Rorvik (SAAF)]

08.09.44:
Ju 52 attacked over Belgrade (claim category not mentioned)
2 x He 111s towing Go 242 gliders destroyed
[pilots involved were F/L Smith, Lt. Vorster, Lt. Rorvik & 2/Lt. J. W. Moor with no allocation of the claims noted, however Those Other Eagles credits Smith with one He 111 and Rorvik with 1/2 share of a Go 242] Unfortunately this doesn't answer Keith's question.

10.09.44:
Ju 52 destroyed [F/L Smith]
He 111 destroyed [shared by Smith and Rorvik per Those Other Eagles]

11.09.44:
Ju 52 destroyed [shared by F/L C. S. Vos & F/O F. A. E. Penson]
Ju 52 destroyed [F/L J. Fairbairn]
Hs 126 destroyed [Sgt. D. H. Bell]

12.09.44:
Do 17 damaged [F/L R. H. Garwood]

13.09.44:
S. 79 probable [shared by F/L Fairbairn & Sgt. A. A. Dowling]

21.09.44:
Bf 109 destroyed [W/O Pickford; Those Other Eagles also credits him with a Bf 109 damaged]

Cheers,
Tom
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Old 3rd March 2012, 17:37
keith A keith A is offline
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Re: 213 Squadron in July and September 1944

Thanks Tom,

Yep that's what we have. There may be TOE candidates from the 8/9/44 213 Sqn combats. If Moore claimed both the missing victories then he is a candidate, if Vorster even has one claim then he qualifies if you include his earlier claim. The Ju52 combat is odd... you would think that 4 Mustangs wouldn't have a problem with a Ju52?
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Old 10th October 2021, 18:59
keith A keith A is offline
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Re: 213 Squadron 8 September 1944

I had hoped that HMAW Vol.5 would answer my questions about this combat but even with access to the ORB this is confusing.

According to the squadron ORB they claimed two He111 and two Go242 in aerial combat. Despite one Go242 landing relatively undamaged and then being straffed.

HMAW gives the credit as follows; a glider shot down by Rorvik and Moor and another by Smith. Which of these was straffed on the ground by Vorster et al according to the ORB is not specified. One He 111 destroyed by the flight (two He111 are given in the text without attribution.)

The ORB is not much help either. It does attribute a glider to Smith and the other to Rorvik and Moore. Vorster is awarded an He111.

TOE gives Smith a credit for a He111 but no Go242, perhaps his was the claim for the Go242 attacked as it glided in for a landing and then straffed on the ground by Vorster and a two other Mustangs? I should note that Vorster was probably flying as wingman to Smith and that his (Vorster's) attack was carried out with the sub-section, Rorvik and Moor. However the squadron ORB does allow him a "kill".

NB According to TOE Rorvik has just the one claim for this date, a Go242 shared with his wingman. Also Vorster is not mentioned in TOE probably because a second victory (the Go242 glinding into landing after Smith's attack is not considered despite his then straffing it on the ground).

A confusing combat indeed. If Smith is indeed the main victor with a He111 and a glider to his credit (even if shared, the latter is an air credit awarded by his squadron and presumably by the RAF?) then he is elevated to AH from TOE. He is also the only RAF Mustang "ace" with five kills (two or three shared) not flying in the ETO.

regards

Keith
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