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Old 21st February 2021, 12:12
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Combat Claims Do 217 Arnhem Sept 5th 1944

KG 2 lost at least two Do 217 near Arnhem on Sept 5th 1944. The unit was moving back to Germany. Luftwaffe reported losses as due to "Jägerbeschuss".

However, I only found a combat claim of the 353rd FG for ONE Do 217. I think their must be more claims. Does anybody has more details?

John
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Old 21st February 2021, 12:14
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is online now
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Re: Combat Claims Do 217 Arnhem Sept 5th 1944

John: This is all I have found:

Quote:
It would appear that the last Do 217 to be shot down in combat occurred on 5 September 1944 when three Do 217s were reported shot down by enemy fighters. Capt Gordon S Burlingame of 352nd Fighter Sqn reported shooting one of these down near Apeldoorn at 1130 hrs
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Old 21st February 2021, 13:25
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Combat Claims Do 217 Arnhem Sept 5th 1944

Chris,

Yes, that claim is known and I have the report. The point is, it is unclear how many Do 217 were lost that day. Balke in his KG 2 Chronik is not correct as some of the losses belong to the same crew. The latest status I have is in the SGLO Loss Register under record T3983 and T3984. The problem is that no NVM exists.

So, if two Do 217 were lost, who claimed the other one...???

John
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Old 21st February 2021, 13:38
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Re: Combat Claims Do 217 Arnhem Sept 5th 1944

Frank O has no more claims while the KG 2 losses at this time are incomplete
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Old 21st February 2021, 14:23
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Combat Claims Do 217 Arnhem Sept 5th 1944

Chris,

Yes, I know. But it is strange that IF more Do 217 were shot down, why are we unable to find more claims....??? It might be that only the Do 217 of Oblt. Frenzel was shot down and the other crashed due other reasons?

As you said, info on KG 2 losses is incomplete.

John
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Old 21st February 2021, 15:35
KM1957 KM1957 is offline
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Re: Combat Claims Do 217 Arnhem Sept 5th 1944

Is it possible the He 111 shared by Capt. David F. Thwaites and Lt. Frank A. Morgan (361st Fighter Squadron, 356th Fighter Group) was the "missing" Do217? They made their claim northeast of Enschede around 1255. Just a thought.

Kent
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Old 21st February 2021, 17:29
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Combat Claims Do 217 Arnhem Sept 5th 1944

Hi Kent,

Nope, that is a He 111 of Wetterflugstelle Soesterberg. See T3984B is same online database.

John
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Old 21st February 2021, 19:20
karl lusink karl lusink is offline
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Re: Combat Claims Do 217 Arnhem Sept 5th 1944

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Manrho View Post
Chris,

Yes, that claim is known and I have the report. The point is, it is unclear how many Do 217 were lost that day. Balke in his KG 2 Chronik is not correct as some of the losses belong to the same crew. The latest status I have is in the SGLO Loss Register under record T3983 and T3984. The problem is that no NVM exists.

So, if two Do 217 were lost, who claimed the other one...???

John
John,
One NVM does exist! Number190 ( III./Kampgeschwader 2 -3.F.B.K.) reports the dead of Stfw.Willi Schönermark (Fl.Wa.Pers.Abw.)in Do 217 M-1 Werknr.723030.
A german reports says: "Nach schwerer beschuss und starker Havarierung des flugzeuges wurde eine bauchlandung versucht." and "die Stelle der bauchlandung ca 1 km südöstlich oder südwestlich von Deelen." Also,
"Nach Bergung der Besatzung kamen die engl.Jäger noch einmal und schossen die machine in brand."

"Der Bordfunker Ernst Hoyos is vermisst"! (quote from the report)
But he was found later because the WASt wrote me that Hoyos is missing since 06-01-1945. (EM:58214-251).

Flugzeugführer Leutnant Frenzel.

Regards,
Karl
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Old 21st February 2021, 20:12
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Combat Claims Do 217 Arnhem Sept 5th 1944

Dear Karl,

Indeed the NVM for Schönermark exists. I have that. I do not know that other German report. Please drop me an email. There are more names of crew members that were killed (Morg/Paul/Gehring/Pohl). However, if Schönermark belonged to crew of Frenzel than everything changes. Enrst Hoyos is still MIA on 5.9.1944.

Could it be that everybody was in the same aircraft? That would mean we have at least 8 names and 2x Flugzeugführer. Could be possible.....and would explain a lot....

John

Last edited by John Manrho; 21st February 2021 at 20:15. Reason: Adding info
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