16 April 1942 Spitfire claims against JG2

[keith A]

According to JG2 reports they lost three aircraft in combat (with Spitfires?) on this date however I cannot find a matching combat in RAF records. The only significant combat on that date is by 485 Squadron which claims three Fw190 off Le Touquet-Sangatte c.1430. They land after around 1505 which would be at odds with JG2s losses.

16.04.42 Lfl. 3 I. / JG 2 Lt. Eichler , Kurt. 2. / JG 2 Messerschmitt WNr. 8405 100%. In sea, off Cherbourg (Pl.Qu. 1028-1042/15W) at 17.00 Bf 109 F-4 17.00 hrs. Combat (Luftkampf) with enemy fighters. Pilot Ü killed.

16.04.42 Lfl. 3 III. / JG 2 Uffz. Rietzeler , Friedrich. 7. / JG 2 Messerschmitt WNr. 8169 100% In sea, 20 kms. north of Cherbourg, at 17.00 hrs. Combat Bf 109 F-4 (Luftkampf) with enemy fighters. Pilot Ü killed.

16.04.42 Lfl. 3 I. / JG 2 Uffz. Margarin , Werner. 1. / JG 2 Messerschmitt WNr. 13012 100% Camiers, 4 kms. north of Étaples, at 19.15 hrs. Crashed- Bf 109 F-2 landing after combat. Pilot injured (WASt.).

Can anyone shed light on who were JG2 opponents on that date if not 485? 317 Squadron has a probable claim later in the day but...

regards

Keith

[Franek Grabowski]

Lukaszewicz fought in Calais area, so not the one.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7446242
Northolt Wing fought in Le Havre area around noon. Horbaczewski's victim fell apart, there is a gun camera film from this combat showing 109 smoking really bad.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7445510

[keith A]

So, it seems that either the Spitfires involved in the combat failed to notice the damage they were doing or the time is wrong. Perhaps 234 Squadron which was attacked by Bf109s while on an ASR escort at the time (17-1800) and lost an aircraft. 7./JG2 claim several Spitfires that day including five at around 1530 in the afternoon. One of these falls at Sangatte at 15.28. Woods and Foreman show just one loss of a Spitfire to enemy fighters on that date despite JG2 claiming 10 and Jg26 adding another.

[keith A]

Apologies. Checking 485 ORB it shows that the 16 April 1942 details (3 Fw190 destroyed) shown in Foreman's RAF Victory Claims 1941-43 and FCWD are in error and that in fact they relate relates to a combat on at 1745 near Hesdin on 24 April 1942. It would appear 401 Squadron encountered JG2 in mid-afternoon and misidentified Bf109s as Fw190s.

[Chris Goss]

401's combat were over the Pas de Calais and these German losses were further west apart from Magarin. According to the Northolt War Diary, Horbaczewski's mission (Ramrod 20) was between 1040-1224 hrs to Le Havre and his Bf 109 broke up and the pilot baled out over the sea. Lukaszewicz's claim was a Rodeo 1729-1908 hrs Wimereux/Marquise/Cap Gris Nez and it was a Fw 190 probable

[Franek Grabowski]

During Ramrod 20 P/O Sołogub of No 306 Sqn got two 109s.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7445660
P/O B.Kudrewicz of No 308 Sqn got one.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7445956
I have brought the case of Horbaczewski, because there is an existing footage from his gun camera, clearly showing a ball of smoke with wingtips.
Now, the question is, which German unit fought off Le Havre and lost at least one Me 109.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Keith

According to Erik Mombeeck Kurt Eichler was lost during RAMROD 20.
That means most likely one of the escort fighters got him (see Franek's posts)
Prien et al give no time for his loss

Again according to Mombeeck Friedrich Rietzler was lost during the afternoon when 10th Group sent
a number of "Hurribombers" against Cherbourg.
I am not able to find a specific RAF claim in that combat which may fit.
Prien puts the time of loss at 15.30H

As far as I can see Mombeeck makes no specific mentioning of Werner Magarin (note spelling!) except
noting he was wounded that day when his aircraft crashed. So no specific time.
Not sure if this should be counted as a "non-combat" loss according to him.
Prien does not commit himself either, so no time stated and loss only listed due to engine damage.
Since the only combat I./JG 2 was in that day is listed as before lunch, it feels more likely Magarin
got his engine damaged in that combat, but that is only conjecture of course.

Since your two given times (17.00H) obviously are wrong, from where did you get the time of
19.15H for the crash of Magarin?

Cheers
Stig

[Szkieletor]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

Lukaszewicz fought in Calais area, so not the one.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7446242
Northolt Wing fought in Le Havre area around noon. Horbaczewski's victim fell apart, there is a gun camera film from this combat showing 109 smoking really bad.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7445510

Hi,

here is Sqn Ldr Horbaczewski`s gun camera film (it starts form 58:06)


https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/25169


Regards

[Franek Grabowski]

Thanks, that is the film. I have seen, and actually have somewhere, HQ stills from the film. At the last moments filmed, it was turning into a ball of smoke. The pilot reputedly baled out. Did Eichler drown or was there another pilot downed?
I wonder if there are any SND reports available for the combat.