Unknown photo He 219 DV+DA W.Nr. 190105

[ju55dk]

NWM are not foolprof, but does have much less faults than the GQM.

Junker

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello Jörn,

I agree and one wonders where the GQM got their data from: apparantly not the units but the Luftflotten, whereas the NVM's were written (and signed!) by the unit commander or his deputy like the Major beim Stabe.

Best regards, Marcel

[Rottler]

Hello Marcel,

the Luftflotte summarized the loss reports of the units and sent a telex (Fernschreiben) to the OKL, Gen.Qu. 6. Abteilung, a so called "Qu-Meldung". The loss report of the Gen.Qu. was an extract from the "Qu-Meldung".

For example:

Luftflottenkommando 6
Fernschreiben vom 1.2.45 an OKL Gen.Qu. 6. Abt.
Qu-Meldung Nr. 1022

Nr. 4 19.1. 3./N.S.G. 4 Feindflug, Halba bei Sagan. Notlandung wegen Verorientierung und Kraftstoffmangel, nicht feindbeobachtet.
Ju 87 D-3 W.-Nr. 110350, 1K+PM, 35%, (Ers.).
Vermisst: (F) Fw Such, Gerhard, (Bf) Ogefr Lenker, Hans.

This loss was published in the Gen.Qu.-report from 3.2.45 Nr. 56:

19.1. 3./N.S.G. 4 F Halba/Sagan Notlandung inf. Verorientierung
Ju 87 D-3 110350 35 Er
Fw Such, Gerhard F vermisst
Ogefr Lenker, Hans Bf vermisst.

Regards
Leo

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello Leo,

Thank you for your explanation which makes perfectly sense. Reading this I got an idea whether there are such Luftflotte Meldungen for the year 1944 ? I sure you know that just a small part of the GQM loss lists for 1944 survived WW-2. A small chance, but IF the Luftflotte Meldungen survived, this source could fill in that big gap.

Best regards, Marcel

[Rottler]

Hello Marcel,

unfortunately there are no "Qu-Meldungen" for 1944.
Only some documents of the Luftflotte 6 from 1945 concerning the Eastern front survived the war.

Regards
Leo

[edNorth]

Thanks Leo for your post above. One interesting aspect unearthed. There were often 13 copies of GQM made, some of two sets survived (LFV and Schulen are in duplicatee). So there is still chance of one more koffort (wooden box) stashed in obscure place. France has been my best bet so far. Year 1944 was Battle for liberating France! -Ed

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello Ed,

Well, let us not start that most puzzling theme in this thread
It once has been discussed what could have happened. Two options: 1) the original documents (if not deliberately destroyed) have been lost when they were still in German hands or 2) they were lost when in Allied posession.

Never give up any hope, after all the wooden panels with all victories of NJG 1 have been found in a German barn years ago...

Best regards, Marcel

[TigerTimon]

Originally Posted by he219research

Thank you all for good information and an excellent discussion!

Originally Posted by he219research

To further confuse matters...

Wasn't WNr 210905 shot down together with WNr 190128 during that training flight on 9/9´44?
In my records, I have 210905 listed as being shot down 9/9´44 at approx. 17:55 by P-51 Mustangs from 353rd FG, during a training flight to Rheine. Three fatalities: Ofw. Heinz Jadatz, Uffz. Alfred Schindler and Uffz. Heinrich Wennholz.

Just a few minutes later, at approx. 17:58, I have WNr 190128 listed as "crashed on landing" at Hopsten airbase (after presumably the same attack by US fighters).
Were both these He210A-0s indeed shot down during the same flight?

Actually, they were not P-51 Mustangs, but P-47 Thunderbolts. The 353rd did only operate Mustangs from October 1944 on (source: http://www.americanairmuseum.com/unit/296).

[Snautzer]

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...3#post-1713028


shot up Tail with 190128

[Revi16]

Originally Posted by Snautzer

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...3#post-1713028


shot up Tail with 190128

That's an Me 210/410 tail.