III./JG 54 24 Jul 1941

[Nokose]

On the 24 Jul 1941 at 19:45 - 20:00 in the area of Porkhova III./JG 54 and Stab/JG 54 intercepted a group of Soviet bombers. My question is about the following that I found in Prien’s JFV 6/II on page 264, it has Uffz. Hans Kupko 8 Staffel shooting down an I-18 (2) at 17:20. On page 270 it lists Uffz. Herbert Kupko of 8./JG 54 Notlandung, Ort unbekannt, 100% Bf 109 F-2. Is this the same man? And if so which is his real name?

During the Soviet bomber raid there is mention of the bomber gunners shooting down a Me-109. Trying to determine if this occurred at the time of the dogfight or during the bomber raid. I checked “Kracker” but no Kupko is listed there. On page 270 it has a (v) which I understand means missing.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

The Kracker list is gathering data on Luftwaffe officers, as an Uffz Kupko will not be included.

If Prien's book has "(v)" after his name, that means that he was posted missing but later returned. A real missing loss will have "v" without ().

Edited: checked the book as I have it, and yes the book has (v.), so pilot was posted missing and returned, as did four other pilots on 6 July for example. Real missing losses, like Hptm Arnold Lignitz on 30 September (page 271) have "v.".

[Nokose]

Thanks Laurent! So the mystery remains was there more then one pilot in 8. Staffel with the last name of Kupko or just a mixing of the first and middle names on the records?

[G.R.Morrison]

In an earlier incident (29.March 1941, St. Dizier, Motorstörung) with 8./JG 54 his name is given as Uffz. Herbert Kupke.

GRM

[Rottler]

Comparison JFV/Tony Wood's list:

JFV Vol. 6/II
04.07.41 8./JG 54 Uffz Herbert Kupko 1st victory DB-3 18.50
24.07.41 8./JG 54 Uffz Hans Kupko 2nd victory I-18 17.20

Tony Wood:
04.07.41 Uffz Herbert Kupke 8./JG 54 DB-3 19.50
24.07.41 Uffz Herbert Kupke 8./JG 54 I-18 17.20.

Leo

[christian]

Hi

It was Herbert Kupko, he leave the 8.Staffel early 1942 and came to the Erla-Werke as "Einflieger". He died in the early seventy years.

Greetings Christian

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Rottler

Comparison JFV/Tony Wood's list:

JFV Vol. 6/II
04.07.41 8./JG 54 Uffz Herbert Kupko 1st victory DB-3 18.50
24.07.41 8./JG 54 Uffz Hans Kupko 2nd victory I-18 17.20

Tony Wood:
04.07.41 Uffz Herbert Kupke 8./JG 54 DB-3 19.50
24.07.41 Uffz Herbert Kupke 8./JG 54 I-18 17.20.

Leo

Tony Wood's list was made from often barely readable microfilms, and this source did not include the first name for most, if not all of the lines. The first names of the files come from other sources, like books and loss lists. Jim Perry was a major contributor for this, and I myself provided data to complete some hundred of names. But still the list include a good part of guess (by Tony or those who helped him) from available data at the time.

[Nokose]

Thank You Gentlemen! I will go with Herbert over Hans in my work.