FW190 Losses on September 23, 1944 -Arnhem

[Steven6095]

Hello : ) I am trying to find some info about the career of a family member.

On September 23, 1944 P-47 flown by John Eanes of the 353rd FG shot down a FW190 slightly SE of Arnhem. Altitude was reported at 5000 feet.

Looking for any info at all on that plane that was shot down or any photos of John's plane.

Thank you very much!
Steven

[Nokose]

Steven,
Stab/JG11 and IV/JG54 were operating in that area that day. I don't have anything other then that but maybe someone else can find something from one of these units.

[Steven6095]

Thank you!
That is more info than we had!

[Brian Bines]

From a hard to read hand written list the best I can make out for this day is two Fw190A8's of 13/JG54 Uffz Julius Handel killed in combat west of Kleve w.n. 731714 and Uffz. Gerhard Liebezeit shot down and killed west of Almelo wn 174128. Perhaps the dates could be checked on the Grabesuche site if either looks possible.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

IV./JG 54 lost a total of 6 aircraft on this day.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Brian Bines]

Hi Andreas,

I would appreciate your help here the IV/JG54 list I have appears to give losses in the Arnhem area as 21-9-44 Fw Bauer +, Fw Vogelbacher m-+, Fw Mieszala m-+, Ltn Jung baled out shot on chute +, Fw Jost w, Uffz Guse m, Ltn Olsen w, Ofhr. Bauer-Borgehr w, Fw Brucker +, Oblt Weiler w, and Uffz Meissner inj. The 23rd is as my post and for the 25th it shows Uffz Adler m, and Fw Zorn +. One loss on the 26th in the Nijmegen area is given as Uffz Attendorf +.
As I said it is from a hand written list and the dates are very difficult, if you would'nt mind checking the dates it would be much appreciated,

Regards

Brian Bines

[paul peters]

According the Dutch loss list JG54 lost two FW 190's:
Uffz J. Schneider near Aalten (45 km E of Arnhem) and
Uffz Goetzelt, E of Nijmegen.
paul

[John Manrho]

I believe the Fw 190's in combat with the 353rd FG were the ones from IV./JG 54. There were several units active over Arnhem that day. Please keep in mind the 1 hour time difference between Allied and German time.

I./JG 26 was in combat around 17.00 hrs German time (16.00 hrs Allied time). They were in combat with P-51's and claimed 4 for the loss of at least three Fw 190's.

II./JG 26 was in combat around 17.30 hrs German time (16.30 hrs Allied time). They were in combat with P-51's and claimed 4 for the loss of at least one Fw 190.

I believe I. and II./JG 26 were in combat with the 339th FG.

The following units were also active over Arnhem - Nijmegen and belonged to the 3. Jagddivision;

Stab JG 11 with 5 Bf 109 (17.45-19.45 hrs from Gütersloh A/F)
II./JG 27 with 24 Bf 109 (17.45-19.24 hrs from Gütersloh A/F)
IV./JG 54 with 19 Fw 190 (18.10-19.35 hrs from Plantlünne A/F)

They were in combat with a large formation of P-47's (40-50) and reported;

Stab JG 11: 4 P-47's claimed, 1 loss reported (~18.36-18.40 hrs)
II./JG 27: 5 P-47's claimed, 6 losses reported (~18.35-18.45 hrs)
IV./JG 54: 2 P-47's claimed, 6 losses reported (~18.37-18.45 hrs)

It must have been the 353rd FG who was in combat with these units. They claimed around 17.45 hrs (=18.45 German time);

5 Me 109 destroyed
1 Me 109 probable
2 Me 109 damaged
12 Fw 190 destroyed
1 Fw 190 probable
3 Fw 190 damaged

The claiming for the Fw 190's seems a little bit too much.... It is impossible to tell who shot down who. The IV./JG 54 losses that day;

Uffz. Julius Händel, 13./JG 54, MIA, west Kleve.
Uffz. Gerhard Liebezeit, 13./JG 54, MIA, west Kleve.
Uffz. Hans Schidla, 13./JG 54, wounded, bellylanding near Schüttorf.
Uffz. Johannes Schneider, 14./JG 54, KIA, Arnhem area.
Uffz. Hans Götzelt, 15./JG 54, KIA, Arnhem area.
Uffz. Rudolf Walter, 16./JG 54, OK, bailed out near Kleve.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

John.

[Steven6095]

Thank you for the wealth of info!

I will have the full combat report he filed in front of me tomorrow and may get some more details then.

I may get a map and sit down and try to plot some of this out and see which ones are more probable. I know we can never be for sure, but some of these may be able to be ruled out.

The story I have heard is that this was not in a large group of aircraft, but him and a few other P-47s were unengaged and a lone FW190 overshot.

Thanks for the info and I will see what I can find in the report tomorrow.

I appreciate it!

[John Manrho]

Steven,

if you want any "certainty" in linking US claim to Luftwaffe loss you will need all 353rd FG Combat Reports, the Mission Report of the 353rd FG and the individual Squadron Reports and then maybe, just maybe you will find a few matches by carefully combining all details....

Cheers,

John.