Do17 of II/KG3 shot down 10 July 1940

[Brian]

Hi guys

My records show that sections of 92 Squadron Spitfires engaged a Ju88, a He111 and a Do17 round about midday on 10 July 1940 over Wales. I assume this was one and the same. It was apparently claimed probably destroyed. Can anyone confirm if this was Oblt Bott's II/KG3 Do17 that failed to return from an operational sortie on this date? If not, what was it likely to have been?

Cheers
Brian

[Peter Cornwell]

Hi Brian,

Cannot be sure if this was the aircraft engaged by No.92 Squadron on 10 July 1940 but it certainly went into the drink. Crew as follows: Ff: Oberlt Hilmar BOTT (death confirmed 13.3.42), Beob: Lt Friedrich-Karl Schroder, Bf: Oberfw Franz PUK (still recorded as 'missing' in 1960 DRK Suchdienst Vermisstenbildliste LH374), HSch: Gefr Edi FRENZ (washed ashore, but when & where not in my notes).

I note that Bartley records this event as being 15 July 1940 in his autobio which opens up other possibilities, maybe.

[Brian]

Hi Peter

Thanks for the crew details.

This is what I have for 10 July regarding intruder/s over Wales around midday:

1121-1231 3 Spits from 92 Squadron (Kingcombe/Bartley/Barraclough) claimed Ju88 probable over Llanelly

1200-1318 2 Spits from 92 Squadron (Hill/Wright) He111 probable near Barry

1130+ S/Ldr JS O'Brien (on visit to Pembrey) took off in 92 Squadron Spitfire and claimed Do17 shot down/probable (according to Myles Duke-Woolley - date not confirmed but seems likely this was the incident)

Additionally, W/Cdr Ira Taffy Jones wrote about chasing a Ju88 in an unarmed Henley, at which he fired his Very pistol (see 'Tiger Squadron' p.225)

Any comments/corrections would be appreciated please.

Cheers
Brian

[Peter Cornwell]

Brian,

My own notes (extracted from No.92 Squadron ORB) are as follows:

11.30 Green 2 WILLIAMS patrolling Barry saw Ju88 in AA but lost it in cloud. Then sighted an He111 which he attacked. He reported a large piece blown off the top of the fuselage & starboard engine smoking before it spiralled into cloud.

11.40 Red Section (R1 KINGCOMBE, R2 BARTLEY, & R3 BARRACLOUGH) were patrolling base (flying independently) & each of them attacked a Ju88 that had bombed Pembrey. All made separate attacks but no claim was made as it was lost in cloud.

Strangely, I made no note of the other engagements you mention, but the 'Taffy' Jones' account is well known to me.

[NUPPOL]

MAson's "Battle over Britian" .p.159 reports this as Luftwaffe Loss # 8 and that 2 crew kia and 2 crew MIA; reported show down by Spitfires of 66th Sqdrn of Cooke; Studd and Robertson

[Chris Goss]

This is a very old thread which has been discussed recently. Beware quoting Mason as the definitive on who got whom

[Black6]

Originally Posted by Peter Cornwell

Cannot be sure if this was the aircraft engaged by No.92 Squadron on 10 July 1940 but it certainly went into the drink. Crew as follows: Ff: Oberlt Hilmar BOTT (death confirmed 13.3.42), Beob: Lt Friedrich-Karl Schroder, Bf: Oberfw Franz PUK (still recorded as 'missing' in 1960 DRK Suchdienst Vermisstenbildliste LH374), HSch: Gefr Edi FRENZ (washed ashore, but when & where not in my notes).

I dont know if it will help anybody but my notes show that the body of Gefr Edi Gustav Paul Frenz (51591/60) was recovered from the sea near the Isle of Rottum on 1 Aug 1940 and buried nearby at Usquert/Groningen/NL on 4 Aug 1940.

Maybe if a reprint is done for BBCA Vol.1/p.9 these crew names can be added to that of the pilot.
Peter

[Bruce Lander]

re Mason's info , 66 squadron based at Duxford not anywhere near Wales. virtually every account of the Battle of Britain shows this claim as the first and of the coast of East Anglia.
S/Ldr J S O'Brien was briefly attached to 92 Squadron before taking over 234

Bruce Lander