IV/JG 4 Bf 109 captured by Soviet forces 1945

[ChristianK]

Gentlemen,

two interesting finds from a russian web site which might be still unknown to some. The location of the airfield is not identified but very likely somewhere in central or southern Brandenburg province (according to the source (1st Belorussian Front, May 1945) and the markings of the Bf 109). I would love to see a higher res copy of both photos. Can someone help or has any additional info?

Sources: http://www.russiainphoto.ru/photo/ph...?photoId=32960, http://www.russiainphoto.ru/photo/ph...?photoId=33009

Regards,
Christian

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Many thanks Christian, for your find...

Unfortunately not much info to add for the location, except this is a 14./JG 4 plane which, according to Michael Holm's site, was based at Mark Zwuschen until 14 February 1945.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...ader/JG4-R.htm
According to this link, 14./JG 4 went on to fight in the Berlin area from Jüterbog until disbanded in April 1945. Could this be Jüterbog?

Cheers
Marc

[ChristianK]

Hi Marc,
I just checked and found that FlH Jüterbog - Altes Lager is indeed a valid possibility. The residential house visible in the background of one photo (a not so common occurence so close to an apron) matches the location and style of such buildings in the northern corner of Altes Lager. I know this is just weak evidence, but given JG 4's and 1st Belorussian Front's area of operation, who knows?

Regards,
Christian

[PhilippeDM]

Very interesting pictures indeed. Mark, no idea of the colour of the "15" and the "~"? The border seems to be another colour than white. If you can assume the Stuka's individual letter to be yellow, this border could be yellow too. Any comments?

[Cpt_Farrel]

It's Black 15 of IV./JG4 and Ernst Scheufeles Black 2 from the same unit had yellow outlines as well, that according to the crashed enemy aircraft report.

Another photo exists of Black 15, it's in Mombeeks second volume on JG4 and the photo is taken just as the aircraft is being blown up. The WNr. is hard to distinguish in that photo but given the details in these photos it's likely to be an Erla built aircraft.

Cheers / Anders

[ChristianK]

Hi Anders,
I think I know which photo you are referring to, but would you mind uploading it here, so we can compare?

Regards,
Christian

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Here we go Christian!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625218079461
Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. (6)10 6.. "Schwarze 15", IV./JG 4, April 1945. Source: internet. Given the partially legible W.Nr., this might be a WNF Diana built machine. Published in Mombeek 2001, vol. 2, p. 144, albeit with a wrong caption. Downloaded 31 May 2008.

Cheers
Marc

[Cpt_Farrel]

Marc, check my comments at Flickr, (and here) there is not much that points to Diana but lots against, apart from what I've already mentioned I believe the placement of the WNr is wrong for Diana as well. I haven't checked my references yet though.

Cheers / Anders

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Farrel

It's Black 15 of IV./JG4 and Ernst Scheufeles Black 2 from the same unit had yellow outlines as well, that according to the crashed enemy aircraft report.

Another photo exists of Black 15, it's in Mombeeks second volume on JG4 and the photo is taken just as the aircraft is being blown up. The WNr. is hard to distinguish in that photo but given the details in these photos it's likely to be an Erla built aircraft.

Cheers / Anders

Anders,

Thanks for the precision concerning the yellow contour for the tactical markings within this Staffel and thanks for your IDeing of that second pic! Eagle Eye! . As for this being an Erla bird, I'm no that sure: it could rather be a WNF built machine, which would explain all the camouflage and Balkenkreuz details we can see. As for the subtype, well, no positive proof is to be ascertained as the first number of the W.Nr. can't be made out...

IMHO, the camouflage elements do speak out for a WNF G-10 though, but not from Diana Tisnow WNF.

A pity that the three quarter rear view of that plane is not in higher resolution: the W.Nr. is to be seen above the rudder tab actuation bar....

Cheers from Amman;-))
Marc

[ChristianK]

Ah yes, that's the one. Thanks Marc. I am pretty sure this photo is a montage though, and not a particularly good one too. But it could show the port side of the same plane. Does it come from a russian source?