I./KG 77 Ju 88 losses Tunesia 15 January 1943

[DR40eghs]

Originally Posted by Faenor

Hi all,

som einfo about this action is on this topic:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=20283

Faenor

Hi Feanor,
the original TOCH-post as quoted, is a copy of the well known Gen.Qu. loss report (report date: 18.1.43, numbers: 5-10 and 14), and lists all errors from the original loss-reports regarding crew names.
An additional typo (code: 3Z+NH) was added in this thred here.
For this reason i corrected a few misspelled names with the correct spelling as given by the "Namentliche Verlustmeldung" and/or the Volksbund graves database.

@all: Chose what you like - anyone is free to continue with the wrong crew names, making mistakes in historic reports is not a criminal offense.

Kind regards, Uwe K.

[edNorth]

Uwe, you must consider this when listing "corrections" to names.

Not everybody has access to NVM´s and can therefore not verify what you write be the correct names from NVM.
NVM is basically closed series (at BA-MA and or WAst but many have ) and we thus in past used crewnames as found in Luftwaffe´s Fliegende verbande and Schulen and Sonstige series of the 6.Abt. Ge.Qu. records - I for one own this all on Mirofiche. When I tried get NVM they were closed (2003) but I have been graciously supplied great many from Mr. Matti Salonen, and thank him very much.

Others do not.
But I know you must know this too.

Besides when I see "I think" in old threads I know there might be inaccurates or wrongs involved. Persons not entierly fluent in English occationally mistake old threads as more correct.

FYI, I do not always correct everybody altho I have other info than posted.

-Ed

[DR40eghs]

Hi Ed,
> Not everybody has access to NVM´s and can therefore not verify what you write be the correct names from NVM.
for this reason i give in this case the correct spelling of the names. The info is - apart from NVM - additionally available to the public in the DRK (german red cross) Bildersuchliste (here: vol "LH") and in the Volksbund on-line database: www.volksbund.de/graebersuche.html .

It took me a lot of time to cross reference these data to the GQM of the front-line Luftwaffe units (GQM "Fliegende Verbände") and the "schools and others" lists from BAMA-Freiburg, or NARA or Keele.
If there are any doubts regarding my sources ... i invite everybody to come here to my home, close to Karlsruhe/Germany, to have a look in my sources.

> When I tried get NVM they were closed (2003)...
WASt closed for most requests for good reasons, i.e. protection of the privacy of survivors, relatives and descentants. And yes, Matti is doing a great job (thank you Matti !).
> Others do not.
Since participating in public discussion groups (~ year 2000) i wrote most of the time in the German language discussion groups LBB (+1500 posts from myself) and occasionally at FdW (Forum der Wehrmacht). Sometimes i prefer to communicate in my own (native) language in my spare time. However - i like the Englisch language, i spent the frirst 3 years after graduation at the Culham Labs (1985-88), close to Abingdon/Oxon/UK.
But - i can express myself better (more precise, the right "tone") in German language.

>FYI, I do not always correct everybody altho I have other info than posted.
I would appreciate your additions and/or corrections when you have "better" information than the rest of the world. I understand, our common interest should be, to collect historic factual knowledge as precise as possible. Isn't it ?
---
Uwe K.

[edNorth]

OK, thanks Uwe for invitation. Yes, common goal, I like that.

Rest of world can read old books on Ju 88/188/388, no concentrated correct things in 50 years. Even articles Fz.Classic or J&P are rewrites.
Except Peter, but hes gone. Left the building. All the errors of Griehl stand still, repeated in Medcalf,
plus many many new errors in his Vol.I. Even Vernaleken/Handig "Ju 388" is becoming old. Seriously.

Will pass thrugh Karlsruhe midday tomorrow, Autobahn from old Rhein-Main to a location south!
How is weather tomorrow SW-Germany?

-Ed

[DR40eghs]

Hi Ed,
> Except Peter, but hes gone. Left the building.
Try the German language forum: www.flugzeugforum.de (the "FF").
Search for alle threads with the terms "Junkers", "Ju 88", "Ju 52", ... "Dessau" - signed with "Peter".
> How is weather tomorrow W-Germany?
min/max temp: 17/29 deg C, 1/8 to 3/8 Cu ... quite humid.
With short armed shirt or polo/t-shirt and short trousers you'll be fine.
Drving by car? You'll do better with the train (ICE) from FRA to Freiburg. Currently (as always) we have some construction work on the A5 south of Hockenheim/Walldorf, especially south of Karlsruhe to Rastatt. Driving is no fun - apart from midnight 'til 5 in the morning. Anyway - good luck on the motorway!
> ... old books on Ju 88/188/388 ...
True if you prefer the technical/production info and data.
Not completely true if you look for operational/unit-chronicle-style documentation.
Jan Horn recently published an entirely new/re-written day-by-day operations chronicle of KG 6 (self published - b.t.w. you can find my name in the "acknowledgments" section ... haha).
Similar work is "on a good way" for KG 76 from Jan/44 on 'til the end, and for KG 66, by the same author - the two units are partially historically conncted (pathfinding, illumination tasks, crew KG 76 -> KG 66).
And i know of rumors regarding a KG 76 unit chronicle (1939-43) from another, well known, German author.
So ... new good "stuff" is about to come.
-
Uwe

[edNorth]

Uwe, thank you for info. Thanks for road and weather info, Have driver with Auto.
Yes, I know FF where he hides, but he cannot hide, but is he real-real strange, think behavour is because of possible insecurity and overwork.
Working with Electricity does that to people. Mitglieder ... FF ... ... Ja ... but my German is rusty, since school.
Yes, I know of Cronicles, not doing that but might do some indexes to units.
But been on prod./W.Nr./tech/versions/mods, and will analyse parts of this
as no one has done before, and be ready with basics 2021 as promished.

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks very much for the heads-up Faenor! I hadn't seen that post.

There was some discussion about the name on the airplane from the colour photos. It's suggested they might be related to bird names

http://www.ww2color.com/search/webap...mary_key=00765
I thought it said "Jolli". Googling for it I learnt that in 1963 a children's book was written about a duckling named Jolli. Is this a (nick)name for a duckling in German?

[Skyraider3D]

Ed and Uwe, thanks for your contributions and corrections.
For the past 70 years there has indeed been lots written about WW2 and even more copied by countless authors. Going back to the source can often reveal or correct facts and straighten things out, although occasionally it also re-introduces old errors that earlier authors have actually fixed (using logbooks and personal interviews etc.) as the official documents aren't free of mistakes either (far from it). It's a very delicate undertaking and not straightforward at all, unfortunately.