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  #1  
Old 4th June 2018, 12:49
Aviart Aviart is offline
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Who dropped €3730 on this fake Me 262 eBay auction?

Me 262A, xx+AL.jpg


It is a composite of several other photos. Retouched and edited to look like a single seater. Quite poorly done too. You might want to get in touch with eBay...
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  #2  
Old 4th June 2018, 13:01
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
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Re: Who dropped €3730 on this fake Me 262 eBay auction?

I am increasingly seeing carefully copied photos appearing again and again on eBay. Caevat emptor!
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  #3  
Old 4th June 2018, 16:39
Mark Proulx Mark Proulx is offline
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Re: Who dropped €3730 on this fake Me 262 eBay auction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aviart View Post
Attachment 16651


It is a composite of several other photos. Retouched and edited to look like a single seater. Quite poorly done too. You might want to get in touch with eBay...
I am curious what leads you to make this claim? All you have to work with here is a grab of a lo rez, watermarked image from the ad.

BTW, I ask out of curiosity only. I have no involvement with the buyer or seller..

Mark Proulx
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Old 4th June 2018, 18:25
Aviart Aviart is offline
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Re: Who dropped €3730 on this fake Me 262 eBay auction?

Me 262A, xx+AL.jpg

Below is the original donor image (Reveresed) for the entire engine nacelle and wing on the eBay composite. The wing has been distorted to fit the new perspective of the composite. Underwing cross angle edited to suit. Nacelle has had the original shadows "dodged" to remove and new shadows more befitting to the light source on the composite "burnt" in for effect. Other details have been ironed out, other minor details added. The author knows what to add and where. Suspicious and odd lighting in this area of the composite.

IMG-0169.JPG

The rear of the single-seater canopy is non-existent. As annotated in the image above, the existing two-seater canopy framing from the original image remains. The bump on the underside of the rear fuselage is where a section of donor image has been spliced onto the composite, thus not a perfect match.

Also, the odd section at the rear trailing edge of the rudder. There is no reason for a straight vertical panel and change to camouflage pattern at this location. I believe the donor image was cropped at this point and the creator of the composite has "filled in" the rear of the rudder.

Below is a quick and dirty composite of the original eBay auction and the nacelle/wing area section of the Me262 WNr.111857 image. Nacelle and wing match perfectly in size and proportion, albeit with the same distortion at the wing as used in the eBay image.

Me 262 A+_Lightning on nose_1-3.jpg

All of the above is entirely possible in Photoshop to anyone who has some artistic knowledge and the necessary Photoshop skills. All lighting, shadows and other details can be edited to create a convincing fake. These kinds of edits, techniques and skills are commonplace in any Photography restoration studio. The guy who created the eBay composite is not a pro. Certain sloppy areas show this to be the case. You do not need the high-res original to see such errors. The low-res eBay version is sufficient for the above observations.
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Old 4th June 2018, 20:16
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Re: Who dropped €3730 on this fake Me 262 eBay auction?

1/ A lot of work when it was enough to scan a "real" picture and add the thunderbolt. Don't you think so ?
A piece of cake for a professional as described in you comment.
...
2/ Do all members of LGR agree with that?
3/ Amazing situation when knowing the buyer is most probably member of LRG.
4/ What about the two other Me262 photos sold by same seller respectively sold for 2310 and 2810 Euros; Fakes too ?

Regards,
Franck.
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Old 4th June 2018, 21:09
Aviart Aviart is offline
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Re: Who dropped €3730 on this fake Me 262 eBay auction?

1.) An existing, largely unedited photo would be well known, thus easily spotted by experts of the type. No?
2.) Other members had pointed it out as a strong possibility of being a fake before I even looked at it in any depth today.
3.) Who knows? The initial fake claims occurred on the forum 6 days prior to the auction ending. So any members and possible buyers should have been aware of the suspicions.
4.) What about them? They are not the image in question. Can you not see what I have pointed out in the above image then?
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Old 4th June 2018, 21:33
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Re: Who dropped €3730 on this fake Me 262 eBay auction?

Honestly, I don’t see the claimed two-seater canopy framing, but just a completely normal A-1a canopy plus the pitot tube.

The area near the trailing edge if the landing flap is nothing to worry about either. The top part of the engine nacelle was riveted to the nacelle in that area. See e.g.

https://goo.gl/images/FXdqwS
or
https://goo.gl/images/KkGrof

So, what else? A shot taken of a similar (not the same!) angle as a later shot of another Me 262? Not that uncommon. I have probably a dozen others I could offer that were taken from the same angle. That doesn’t make the photo a fake.

You have not convinced me. Sorry.
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Old 4th June 2018, 21:56
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Re: Who dropped €3730 on this fake Me 262 eBay auction?

PS: I reread your comments and realized that you were referring to the rudder and not the landing flap.

The rudder looks to me completely normal. It was an early production Me 262 with a navigation light behind plexiglass in the lower corner of the rudder. Therefore, you can see through this section.

Also, note that the aircraft is carrying only two MK 108 indicated by the single MK 108 belt feed instructions on the nose. Also matching very well early production Me 262.
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Old 4th June 2018, 22:08
Karl Karl is online now
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Re: Who dropped €3730 on this fake Me 262 eBay auction?

Hello,

the "remnants of Me262B two seater canopy framing" is in fact the pitot tube, which is on the correct plae (left wing).

I know of two photos of the two seater Me262 "B3+SH" with a lighning on the nose, but the angle of view is different to thé one in the "fake" photo.

In contrary to the two seater "B3+SH", the nose tip of "B3+(yellow)AL" is not only white, but yellow with a white ring. All that fits to an early plane of 3.KG54.

So not suspicious to me

Regards, Karl
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Old 4th June 2018, 22:21
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Who dropped €3730 on this fake Me 262 eBay auction?

Unfortunately, I personally know of an instance where thousands of dollars were added to the price of actual artwork sold at a live auction. It was an animation cel with a production background. My friend pointed out to the auctioneer that it was not a production background. They disagreed. Later, it turned out the background was found to not be a production background. In a similar case, an uninformed buyer did not realize the background was also not original. In the first case, there was a refund, in the second, no refund. The buyer did not understand the rather arcane wording in the auction catalog.


In the case of historical photos, I tend to stay away from certain sellers who appear to be selling post-war or 'archive' photos, but in this case, I cannot see how some buyers can be educated. In the case of a photoshop composite, one needs to look very carefully. I have a book that includes information about photo manipulation. It is sad but when something reaches a certain price, forgers move in.
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