Dates of withdrawal of Zerstörer Gruppen from Eastern Front in 1942 1943

[John Manrho]

The orders for ZG 26 to change into JG 6 are pretty clear;

Stab ZG 26 into Stab JG 6 on 13.10.1944 at Prowehren.
(I have not found evidence that contradicts that).

I./ZG 26 into I./JG 6 on 13.10.1944 at Prowehren.
(seems to be confirmed by data I collected from former members, but some had their soldbuch/wehrpass not changed until 18.10.44)

II./ZG 26 into II./JG 6 on 5.8.1944 at Königsberg/Neumark.
(some had their soldbuch/wehrpass changed on 4.8.1944, a day earlier).

John

[Larry deZeng]

Hi John,

I usually view command orders as having precedence over Soldbuch entries because the former deal with an entire unit at an operational level while the latter with an individual at personnel administrative level. There could have been a 5-week delay in entering the change in the individual Soldbücher that may be explained by numerous reasons, such as a possibly unknown telephone change issued by the General der Jagdflieger that postponed the 4 September date, the individual could have been sent on leave and did not rejoin the unit until October, etc. The possibilities are many. Those were chaotic times in late summer/early fall 1944 and few things went according to plan. I have no doubt that it took from 4 September to the first half of October to get the Gruppen fully outfitted, equipped, staffed and operational. But that doesn't render the General der Jagdflieger order worthless. No changes would have happened without this order being issued.

L.

[Larry deZeng]

Paul -

II./NJG 4 (ex-II./ZG 26)
Did this unit become operational immediately upon re-designation in April 1942, or sometime later? The Bewegungsmeldungen report the first non-operational loss in July 1942, but I have used this source to check other units and have made serious mistakes, so I would like to check my reasoning this time round.
Comment: My notes state that Stab II./NJG 4 and 4. Staffel/NJG 4 were disbanded in April 1942, 6. Staffel/NJG 4 was renamed 6./ZG 26. II./NJG 4 was then immediately re-established as a full Gruppe using cadre personnel from 5./NJG 4 plus new personnel and aircraft. It’s first mention in the Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen is 26 Jul 42 when a 4. Staffel Bf 110 E-1 crashed near Luxembourg killing the pilot. An educated guess would be that the Gruppe was “in formation” until late July or August. The first combat loss, according to the Verlustmeldungen, was on 24 Oct 42 when a Bf 110 D-3 was shot up in France (Neufchâteau) and damaged 70%.

I./NJG 5 (ex-II./ZG 2)
Same question as above, was this unit operational immediately upon re-equipment in October 1942?
Comment: I have it at Stendal from Sep 42 and not becoming operational there until early Feb 43. The only entry in the Verlustmeldungen during that period is for 3 Nov 42 when a 3. Staffel Bf 110 E-3 crashed near Stendal and burned out with the crew of 2 being killed. The pilot was Oblt. Kurt Martineck. It seems very likely then that it was non-operational and engaged in re-equipping, work-up and training from Sep 42 to Feb 43.

I./ZG 1
A look at Don Caldwell’s War Diary suggests this unit was off operations, or at least not intercepting raids by the Eighth Air Force, until 2 October 1943. This suggestion is reinforced by the fact that the Bewegungsmeldungen report the unit was accumulating Bf 110Gs from other units in August-September 1943, but not suffering combat losses. Is this correct?
Comment: I have no argument with that. According to my notes, I./ZG 1 had no combat-related losses between 25 July 1943 and 8 October 1943. There were some taxiing accidents, a belly landing and a mid-air collision during that period, however.

Let me know if you need anything else.

L.

[John Manrho]

Hi Larry,

The dates 5.8.44 (II.) and 13.10.44 (Stab and I.) are based on the orders. I have a copies of these orders OKL....not sure what Jurleit is citing (does he name the original source?). The dates around it 4.8.44 or 18.10.44 are dates mentioned in Soldbuch. The 4th September can not be correct for both units. II./JG 6 was already in combat in France by August 23rd.....As I do not have the book, does Jurleit name the source with a reference number or something line that......

John

[Larry deZeng]

Hi John -

Here is the entire passage from Jurleit page 40:

“Mit Befehl des Generals der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland vom 4. September 1944 wurde das Zerstörergeschwader ZG 26 ‘Horst Wessel’ zum Jagdgeschwader JG 6 umgebildet. Die drei Gruppen des Zerstörergeschwaders lagen zu diesem Zeitpunkt in Powehren/Ostpreußen (I./ZG 26) mit Me 410, in Hildesheim unter Oberleutnant Stehle (II./ZG 26) mit Bf 110 und 10 Me 410 sowie in Lechfeld, Schwäbisch Hall und in Leipheim (III./ZG 26) deren 8. und 9. Staffel als Erprobungskommando 262 mit dem Turbojäger Me 262 operierten.”

He does not give a proper document citation with order and file numbers, nor does he state where he got his information from. I have often found this "exact date" of formation business to be something of an unrewarding puzzle that never gets satisfactorily solved because of conflicting documents, behind the scenes phone calls, incomplete records, etc. But in this case specifically, I would say that Organisations-Abt./OKL orders carry more weight than Galland's order which we have yet to see. It seems possible that the 5.8.44 order was issued covered just II. Gruppe, followed by Galland's order to rebuild the entire Geschwader, followed by the 13.10.44 order. At least that's what it looks like to me in the absence of actually seeing Galland's 4 Sep 44 order.

L.

[Evgeny Velichko]

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

I have now consulted another source and have seen that the last loss of I./NJG 4 in the East was reported in early April 1942. Was I./NJG 4 then disbanded and re-formed in September 1942? Since you have mentioned this unit, do you know whether it had any significant intruder successes against Soviet long-range bombers during this period? I have read Soviet sources which mentioned night fighter attacks on bomber airfields at this time, now I know that there may have been something substantive behind this.

Paul:
I./ZG26 (wich was virtually named I./NJG4 only on papers) flew same kind of missions as before, along with II./ZG26, such as airfield attacks (day-light time), road hunting (strafing vechicle columns), other ground attack missions.
Search for details of Hptm. Spiess death in january or Lt. Eduard Meyer death in march.

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Evgeny Velichko

Paul:
I./ZG26 (wich was virtually named I./NJG4 only on papers) flew same kind of missions as before, along with II./ZG26, such as airfield attacks (day-light time), road hunting (strafing vechicle columns), other ground attack missions.

Evgeny, thank you for the additional clarification. I take it that I./NJG 4 / I./ZG 26 did not undertake night intruder operations of any significance.

I looked up Spies and Meyer in Doug Stankey's excellent Careers database, I am copying the summaries below as a quick reference for anyone else interested in these issues:

SPIES, Wilhelm. (DOB: 26.08.13 in Rimpar/Unterfranken). (RE, DKG?). c.25.06.41(19.07.41?) appt Kdr. I./ZG 26 (to 27.01.42). 14.06.41 Hptm., awarded Ritterkreuz, 1./ZG 26. 27.01.42 KIA – Bf 110 C-4 (3U+FH) shot down by AA fire during a low-level attack SSW of Suchinichi/116 km NNE of Bryansk. 21.03.42 awarded the DKG? 05.04.42 Hptm., posthumously awarded Eichenlaub, Kdr. I./ZG 26. Posthumous promo to Maj. effective 01.01.42. Credited with over 300 combat missions and 20 air victories.

MEYER, Eduard. (DOB: 08.12.19 in Detmold). (R). 1940 in I./ZG 26. 09.09.41 Lt. in an unspecified ZG, awarded the Ehrenpokal. 20.12.41 Lt., awarded Ritterkreuz, I./ZG 26. 31.03.42 KIA – Bf 110 E-2 (3U+PL) collided with another German aircraft and plunged to his death near Velizh/Belorussia. Credited with 22 air victories and the destruction of at least 48 enemy planes on the ground and 2 tanks.

Evgeny, I have sent you a PM regarding an Eastern front issue which came up in my research.

Regards,

Paul

[Larry deZeng]

Errr......ah......."Doug Stankey's excellent Careers database" is actually "deZeng/Stankey's excellent Careers database".

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

Errr......ah......."Doug Stankey's excellent Careers database" is actually "deZeng/Stankey's excellent Careers database".

Larry, I stand corrected and embarassed, again You will know from our correspondence that no slight was intended I'll be following up some stuff this evening and I will ask for your advice regarding some more confusing ZG issues once I've got things back in order!

Warm regards,

Paul

[Larry deZeng]

No problemo, Paul! I knew it wasn't intentional so I assumed you were just pulling my chain. Naturally, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to get back at you!!