French combat on 20 June 1940 or earlier

[Håkan]

Hello,

I’m trying to trace a combat in which the French Sergeant Roger Grosjean was shot down by an Italian aircraft. The combat took place around 20 June 1940 or earlier in the Var region (where both Le Luc and St. Raphael are). I don’t have any aircraft type on Grosjean, but I know that he flew MB.152s from Le Luc later.

Is there anyone, who has any ideas when this combat took place and against which Italian unit?

Best wishes/Håkan

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello,

I can't find any reference to a pilot named Grosjean involved in the 1940 campain over Southern France, either with the Armée de l'Air (French Air Force) or the Aéronautique Navale (French Navy Air Force). What is your source to provide this name.

I will use the occasion to say how much your website has been useful for me. Thanks for maintaining and expanding it.

[Stephane Muret]

Hi

Same problem than Laurent. I couldn't find anything about this pilot in my files about battle of France.

Good luck.
Stéphane

[Håkan]

Hello,

Thanks for your help (and kind words on my site). The source of the info is Grosjean's son.

Best wishes/Håkan

[Laurent Rizzotti]

In this area in June 1940, Bloch were flown by the flotilla AC3 of Aéronautique Navale (Bloch 151) and by the Armée de l'Air (at least GC II/8 was in the area).

AC3 was involved in a battle vs CR42 on 15 June 1940, and lost 2 KIA and 6 AC shot down/heavily damaged, but the names of the 9 pilots involved on the French side are listed by one of my sources and there is no Grosjean listed.

On the other hand, Martin's book about the losses of the Armée de l'Air ("Ils étaient là") shows that a Bloch 152 of GC II/8 was lost in a take-off accident on 21 June, unnammed pilot unhurt, and I wonder if it may be your man.

So it will be interesting to know in which branch this man was flying (just knowing his rank will be enough, as Navy and Air Force used different rank names), at leats to reduce the possibilities.

[Håkan]

I'll try to get in touch with his son again to see if he has more info.

Best wishes/Håkan

[Håkan]

I received his "Livret matricule":

18/3/1939 Reçu au concours de l'Ecole de pilote de carrière
de l'armée de l'air.
4/1939-7/1939 Formation à Ambérieux et Istres. Obtient son
Brevet militaire de pilote d'avion le 21/6/1939.
1/10/39 Nommé sergent et affecté à l'Ecole principale de
chasse d'Etampes. Pilote des MS 230, Dewatine 500 et MS 406.
Sort no. 2 de l'école.
3/5/1940 Détaché au Centre d'instruction de chasse de
Chartres et Montpellier.
5/5/1940 Participe à la campagne de France.
Abattu par la DCA française (avec "blessure de guerre en service aérien commandé"). Hospitalisation vraisemblable.
Juin 1940 Descendu par un chasseur italien dans le Var.
Hospitalisation. Reprend son service le 15/10/1940.
30/6/1940 Nommé sergent-chef.

Unfortunately no units, but he was a pilot of de l'armée de l'air.
Hopes this is of some help.

Best wishes/Håkan

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Now that it is confirmed this guy was with the Armée de l'Air, a possibility was that he was not in a frontline unit (well covered by Martin's loss lists) but in a local defence patrol (DAT), or even still with the CIC (Fighter School) in Montpellier and flying patrols from here. The former are described in some books I don't have, for the latter you have to dig in French archives (I did it last year, but for the crashes of 1939 and the first months of 1940, not for the May-June campain).

Given his logbook, it seems to me that a transfer to an operationnal unit would be indicated, so my guess is that he stayed with the CIC and was "administravely" considered to have flown during the France campain, probably because he flew patrols with the school.

Then his two downings should be recorded somewhere.

[Håkan]

Hello again,

I received some new info on Grosjean and it seems that he was involved in another accident on 24 September 1941 with MB.152 no. 675.
Is there anyone who can verify this?

Best wishes/Håkan

[Bronsky]

What would really help would be a mention of his unit.

Looking at the annexes from Martin's "Invisibles vainqueurs", a Bloch 151 (#422) is listed as lost in air combat on 14 June from ELD I/55 with the pilot listed as "gravely wounded". This is a local air defense unit, though I don't know where it was stationed.

If it was on the Italian front, then the account below missed it.

<http://perso.orange.fr/conflictuel/LGGtemp/Air_war_Italian_front_1940.doc>

There's another possibility from GC II/9 ?