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  #1  
Old 24th February 2016, 13:25
Rudi Penker Rudi Penker is offline
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Messerschmitt Bf 109 Mermet & Ehrengardt

http://www.sound-bm.com/de/allgemein...tt-bf-109.html





Built to 33.675 units, the Messerschmitt Bf 109 remains today source of fascination, both for the enthusiasts of aviation and the contemporary military history fans. This fighter symbolizes as much the power and the superiority of the Luftwaffe during the first war years, as the ferocity of the air combats during the Battle of England.
After years of patients and meticulous searches in the Messerschmitt and Daimler-Benz archives, with the cooperation of recognized specialists and of anonymous enthusiasts, Jean-Claude Mermet and Christian-Jacques Ehrengardt conceived this monograph like a technical guide in order to facilitate the identification of the various versions of the famous Luftwaffe's fighter.
The authors testify through nearly 200 pages, widely illustrated with plans and color profiles designed by Jean-Marie Guillou, as well as a rich and very often new iconography, the power and the complexity of this plane of legend.


Cover by Jerry Boucher
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  #2  
Old 5th June 2017, 22:54
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
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Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109 Mermet & Ehrengardt

Why no discussion on this book?!
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  #3  
Old 5th June 2017, 23:24
edwest2 edwest2 is online now
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Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109 Mermet & Ehrengardt

See here:

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/rev...rk-barnes.html


This English language book is published by a French publisher known for their quality work written in French.



Ed
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  #4  
Old 6th June 2017, 00:26
Rasmussen Rasmussen is offline
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Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109 Mermet & Ehrengardt

Lot of the mistakes and additions I have described in the LRG-forum ...
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Old 6th June 2017, 00:26
edwest2 edwest2 is online now
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Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109 Mermet & Ehrengardt

LRG forum? Where is this?




Ed
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  #6  
Old 6th June 2017, 04:13
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
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Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109 Mermet & Ehrengardt

Perhaps LRG is the Luftwaffe Research Group, but I just took a search on the forum and found no duch discussion. It might be lurking somewhere. In which subforum is it?

Since Rasmussen apparently knows so much about the 109, perhaps he should write the ultimate book on it? If not, why not?
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Old 6th June 2017, 10:31
Rasmussen Rasmussen is offline
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Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109 Mermet & Ehrengardt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukka Juutinen View Post
In which subforum is it?
Of course ... it's the Luftwaffe Research Group, forum: Luftwaffe Publications, subforum: Aero Journal, first icon: Bf 109: errata and additions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukka Juutinen View Post
If not, why not?
Because there isn't such an thing like the "ultimate book" and I'm not the real Bf109-specialist. I'm interested on historical aspects and know nothing about technical aspects (and I'm not interested on such aspects). And I know a lot of Erla machines but the other ... I would be crazy to write an "ultimate book" about the Bf 109. The last point --- I have to work for my meal and the free time is more than limited.
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Old 6th June 2017, 14:03
Rasmussen Rasmussen is offline
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Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109 Mermet & Ehrengardt

For all haven't access to LRG:

p.4:
The formulation of the task to develop an new fighter was done by an "Entwicklungsgruppe" in December 1933. In February 1934 the Technische Amt of RLM addressed the specifications for the industry. In October 1934 the mock-up of the Bf109a was ready ...
p.7:
(spelling) "Onkel" not "Unkel" (mix Onkel/uncle)
p.12: D-IIBA, W.Nr.808, the damage were 30%, the a/c returned to Ausgburg for repairs
p.13:
the "K" in the German phonetic alphabet was "Konrad" not "Karl" (today it's "Kaufmann" - DIN 5009)
p.15: the Erla W.Nr.'s of Bf 109B...284-418, 539-547, 588-618 not 301-475 (confirmed by documents and loss lists)
p.19,20: regarding "Flugzeugentwicklungsprogramm LCIIb" from 01.10.1937 were sent to Spain V3, V4 and V6 but not V5
p.22,31:
"Fiesler at Liepzig"----What's that? Fieseler produced in Kassel, far from Leipzig.
p.28:
regarding the same program (p.19) the V15 and V15a got an DB601 (called "Muster E1"), the V16 is mentioned with an Jumo210D as "Waffenversuchsträger"
p.40:
the "Baureihenbezeichnung Bf109" from 01.11.1942 called the "Bf109E-6" without the suffix "N" because the DB601N was the standard engine
p.43:
an E-7/R3 was't an official "Baureihe" regarding "Baureihenbezeichnung" - there were U-designations only
p.44:
the mentioned 106 E-7 produced by Erla were E-7/N
p.44:
the Slovakian "white 7" was the W.Nr.3317 (source: Railich, "13.(slow.)/JG 52")
p.45:
The "tropicalization" kits on Bf 109E weren't mounted on the assembly lines but on repair industry and/or LZA Erding and Fl.H.Schleißheim. On June 1941 for example Erla didn't delivered E-version more.
p.58: "Two series were produced by the WNF, one with 137 examples (of the 170 planned, WNr.5621-5790) and ..."--- I'd say this batch was delivered by Mtt.AG (see p.59)
p.59: "The 33 planes lacking from the WNF delivery would be produced by Mtt-AG as Bf109F-2s (WNr.5756-5790) ..."---we find for example in the logbook Riedmeier the W.Nr.5671 (RC+EN) or W.Nr.5725 (ND+IN) and in the logbook Kühnle many a/c's from the RC+Ex-batch, all in Regensburg and called as "F-1". (an little addition: the W.Nr.5751 and 5753 are called by Riedmeier "F-2" too.)
p.60:
By Erla the first Bf109F-2 was delivered in Dezember 1940 and not in February 1941, in January 1941 it were 5 and 21 in February 1941. In April 1941 were completed 188 and not 189. In June 1941 followed 30 a/c's because in May wasn't accepted not one. They had problems with delivery of "Randkappen" and problems with the engine.
p.61:
In June 1941 AGO hadn't completed 378 machines but 287. The last Bf109F-2 left the AGO-factory in November 1941.
p.64:
The designation "F-2/U1" isn't for sure "pure invention". In the "Baureihenbezeichnung" this is an a/c with "2 MG131 statt 2 MG17". But ... an F-2/R5 there doesn't exist like the F-2/Z too.
p.65:
The F-3 not "seems to have been the same as the Bf109F-1" ... it was the same as the Bf109F-1 ... with an DB601E.
p.66:
The first F-4 left Erla in May 1941 not June.
p.81:
Regarding "Baureihenbezeichnung" was G-1/R1 "wie G-1 jedoch erleichterte Ausführung ohne Rückenpanzerung, ohne Abwurf - und Reichweitenaußenanlage, mit ungeschützten Blechbehälter" ... means not the Jabo-version, an R2 and R3 isn't mentioned.
p.90:
The first G-5 left Erla im May 1943 not March 1943.
p.91:
The simplified cabin, the so-called "sichtverbesserte Kabinenhaube" (or better known as "Erla-Haube"), wasn't proposed by Erla only produced ... Erla was an so-called "Nachbaubetrieb" without an construction/development office. They had an "Änderungsabteilung" for modifications not more not less. The cabin was developed by Mtt.AG in Regensburg.
p.94:
The regular production of G-5 began in April/ May 1943 and stopped March 1944 (some a/c's were delivered in June but this were machines on repair in Antwerpen after the Big Week-raid from 20.02.1944 in Leipzig). In July/August followed an batch of G-5/R2/AS found by allied troops on 04 September 1944 in Antwerpen.
p.100/101:
The W.Nr.463141 wasn't an "official" G-6MW50 but an regular G-14. It was new built in October 1944 and sold as "G-14" to RLM--- nothing with repair. (What's an "simplified" cowling?) I'd guess it's one of the machines were delivered as trainer without the MW50-system (I believe it was in October - I must search for the document.)
p.106:
Most of the "official" G-6MW50 were found in the 413xxx-batch, since the 46xxxx-batch the a/c's were called "G14".
p.114-115:
Why such an "mystery tale" about the GM-1 hatch on Erla G-14? They had the order to use the remaining G-6/U2-tubes in the following production ... one sentence would be enough.
p.116:
typo: 462000 not 762000
p.125:
If the W.Nr. correct then was it an G-4trop and not an G-2.
p.130:
The "two constructor's identification plates" (if the pictures with the two plates on the left site were meant) were 1.) the constructors identification plate and 2.) the well know plate for the "Änderungsstufe" (not an "Gerätenummer").
p.131:
Erla-Leipzig didn't radically redesigned the cowling...Erla produced the cowling (see p.91).
p.133:
The curved line ended higher (not like the curved line on WNF-machines).
p.134:
Not "certainly a prototype with..." ... it was the prototype of Erla G-10.
p.135: The Erla G-10 got their DB605AS not in a repair shop, they were delivered "fresh" from the factory halls with this engine ... but there wasn't an official designation like "G-10/AS" that's correct.
p.168:
The batch with the W.Nr.15708 inside was delivered in July 1943 not March 1943. In the Beauvais logbook the code was PV+IB. "...destroyed during the bombing of ... , August 18; 1944." ... hmmm, regarding the logbook Beauvais he flew the a/c on September 23, 1944, in Memmingen.

That's some what I have found with my limited knowledge of English.

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  #9  
Old 6th June 2017, 15:41
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
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Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109 Mermet & Ehrengardt

What is the authors' response? And how can we know that Rasmussen is right, the authors not? This does remind one of Rabe Anton's comments on how lacking is source noting in most aviation books. Why, oh why don't publishers insist on precise reference noting?
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Old 6th June 2017, 16:39
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Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109 Mermet & Ehrengardt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukka Juutinen View Post
Why, oh why don't publishers insist on precise reference noting?
Including references = increased page count = increased costs = decreased chance of profit. However, it would cost almost nothing to put the references on a web page and they might even be easier to consult while reading than they would be at the back of the book.
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