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  #101  
Old 1st February 2014, 06:11
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Hi Guys

Who know anything about Franz Eisenach? His claims really take-off when a certain Erich Hesse starts making claims every time Eisenach does in late 1944. Assume Hesse was his wingman?. could be just a good partnership, but there claims do stand out.
Would be interested if anybody has information on Hesse.

Regards

Johannes
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  #102  
Old 1st February 2014, 13:50
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

HGabor,

Anton Resch of Stab/JG 52 claimed two Yaks on March 6th, 1945. Is there a possibility that St.Lt. Posuiko was his victim? I have to own up to not knowing where Stab/JG 52 were based on that exact date...

Nick
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  #103  
Old 1st February 2014, 15:51
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Nick,

St.Ltn Posuiko's Yak-9M was lost most likely to small calibre ground fire. No more records of lost Yaks in the area. Cheers,

Gabor
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  #104  
Old 2nd February 2014, 15:36
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

On October 27, 1944 at 13:42 six Yak-3s of 5 VA, 13 GvIAD, 150 GvIAP, 2nd Sq., led by Gv.Lt.Col. Borovoy encountered 16 Fw 190s and 4 Bf 109s in the Nyíregyháza region at the altitude of 2000 m. Gv.Lt. Nikolai Matveevich Knut was shot down in his Saratov, Factory No.292-built Yakovlev Yak-3 (S/N: 2912 ("29-292-12"), engine: 412-200, tactical No. '29') South of Nyíregyháza, Hungary and got injured. 5 VA, 207 OKRAP has also written off two Omsk, Factory No.166-built Yak-9Ds (S/N: 19166066 and 19166078, engines 415-1037 and 415-90) between November 1-15, 1944 as prev. days' losses. Could any of these be Hartmann's 305th???

Gabor
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  #105  
Old 2nd February 2014, 18:05
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Seems a perfect match. By my own calculations from given grid reference Hartmann's 304th confirmation was on 27th October 1944 at 1016 hrs at an altitude of 2500 metres in the region of Nyregynaza a Jak-9.

This proves nothing of course, even if he was dis-honest he might have been flying with people he didn't know after his break i.e an opportunist!

Regards

Johannes
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  #106  
Old 3rd February 2014, 01:10
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Nokose Nokose is offline
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Johannes, Do you have anything on the team of Fw. Gerhard Beutin and Obfw. Rudolf Rademacher of 3./JG 54. I found one incident in 1942 were their claims didn't match the Soviet dogfight with them at all.

The claims for Hannes Trauloft's have been showing up more as I run up on more information, at least for 1942 and 1943.
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  #107  
Old 3rd February 2014, 07:50
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Hi

With Rademacher.....he was associated with Walter Nowonty, so therefore would be a prime suspect for false claims with his time with Nowotny anyway. He may well have been more accurate in his claiming later, but I suspect 3./JG 54 if not the whole of I./JG 54 of being as a unit over claiming throughout there time in Russia, however please remember that there are always those who are honest when everybody else is not.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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  #108  
Old 3rd February 2014, 13:57
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GMichalski GMichalski is offline
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Hi,
about Rademacher it seems the same case like Rudolf Pflanz who fly with Major Helmut Wick....
they fly with pilots who made overclaims and by association we also consider them exaggerated...but each pilot is different.

G Thyben and Rademacher seems more reliable than others of JG54...

regards
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"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger [Wingman], you have lost your battle."
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"The first rule of all air combat is to see the opponent first."
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  #109  
Old 4th February 2014, 01:45
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Just checking Hartmann's claims on November 13, 1944... He claimed 4 Yak-9s this day SE of Budapest. From Soviet losses:

5 VA, 331 IAD, 179 IAP Yak-9T, S/N: 0215354, piloted by ml.lt Evgenii Ivanovich Teplishev was lost near Tápiószőlős at around 14:00, local time. This could be his 309th victory at Tápiógyörgye at around 14:15. (In battle 4 Yaks were covering 6 IL-2 Sturmoviks against 8 Bf 109s.)

5 VA, 13 GvIAD, 149 GvIAP Yak-1b, S/N: 11186, engine: 415-1670, piloted by gv.ml.lt Aleksandr Titovich Kotlyar was lost at Jászberény at around 3000 m between 13:55-14:50 local time. 8 (4 + 4) Yaks against 4 Fw 190s and 2 Bf 109s.
This could be his 311th victory at Tápiógyörgye at around 14:30 PM, at the altitude of 4000 m.

The other 4 soviet Yak losses this day (5 VA, 122. IAP: 1 Yak-9M, 150. GvIAP: 1 Yak-3 and 1 Yak-9D, 179. IAP: 1 Yak-9M) were far away both in time and space and/or matched other pilots' claims.

Again: MAX 50% accuracy in Hartmann's claims!

Gabor

PS: 5 VA also lost a Po-2 (S/N: 640808), a La-5FN (S/N: 41210201) and 4 IL-2 Sturmoviks (S/N: 1872913, 1873177, 10454, 9947) on November 13, 1944. The La-5FN and an IL-2 (S/N: 10454) plus probably 1-2 Yaks were destroyed by Hungarian Bf 109G fighters. The engine of the 177. GvIAP Lavochkin La-5FN (S/N: 8212559, recovered in 2007 at Újszász) is now on display in the Szolnok Aircraft Museum. The rest fell to Flak and other German pilot(s), eg. Düttmann.

Last edited by HGabor; 4th February 2014 at 02:39.
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  #110  
Old 4th February 2014, 07:36
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Hi Gabor

50% max, but Lt Heinz Ewald of 7./JG 52 claims a Jak-9 at 1434, though at only 400 metres, and Gefr Heimo Welz of 6./JG 52 claims another Jak-9 at 1430 hrs.......both same general area.

Regards

Johannes
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