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  #21  
Old 11th October 2008, 00:14
the_ivan the_ivan is offline
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Re: Bf 109 H in service with 5.(F)/123

AFAIK, G/GS was used to describe an A/AS-engine with MW50 until June 44, when the AM/ASM designation was established.

Here is an example from the provisional instructions on MW50 usage in the Bf 109 (issued around late April/early May):

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  #22  
Old 11th October 2008, 21:00
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Re: Bf 109 H in service with 5.(F)/123

In other threads on the DB 605G you will see that it was simply what was later called the AM. The test results being published in Summer 1943. So, I can see that there were enough internal differences between it and the production DB 605 AM that they probably just kept a few copies around. When the opportunity came to put an engine into a G-5 to create a 109H, they probably just pulled the G off the shelf, stuck a DB 603 G supercharger in it and sent it off to France. Thus the 'GS.'
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  #23  
Old 11th October 2008, 23:47
Harold Lake Harold Lake is offline
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Re: Bf 109 H in service with 5.(F)/123

George,

A good argument with an entirely plausible explaination. But I fear the jury is still out on this one.

Hal
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  #24  
Old 12th October 2008, 03:14
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Re: Bf 109 H in service with 5.(F)/123

Well, the Germans seemed to think the engine was a GS. Do you have anything more accurate?

On the other hand, it's really all a big WAG, isn't it?

All the best,
George
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  #25  
Old 12th October 2008, 12:56
the_ivan the_ivan is offline
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Re: Bf 109 H in service with 5.(F)/123

Well, that document is very explicit about what is a GS: a DB 605 AS with MW 50 (both delivering systems are described, via pressurization from supercharger or via an installed GM 1 system).

So IMHO, this G-5 just was fitted with an DB 605 AS and had it's GM 1 system modified to use MW 50.

But to each it's own...
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  #26  
Old 13th October 2008, 03:34
Harold Lake Harold Lake is offline
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Re: Bf 109 H in service with 5.(F)/123

No, I don't have any helpful or meaningful information on the DB 605 G or GS. But, it just seems odd that traditional reference works like Jane's or the Von Gersdorff & Grasmann volume make no mention of this engine. Maybe "odd" is not the right word given what seems to be a very narrow window of application.

It's a shame that that volume promoted by Motorbooks International ( I can't remember the precise title or authors) a few years back, dealing with German piston engines of the 1935-1945 period, failed to materialize. If it had, I'm certain they would have had at least one early subscriber.

Hal
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  #27  
Old 13th October 2008, 04:43
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Re: Bf 109 H in service with 5.(F)/123

Since the DB 605 G is not very well known, here is a tabular and a graphic description of the engine from a report on adding MW50 to the DB 603 and the DB 605 of November 1943. You can consider the DB605G to be the prototype for the DB605AM, and comparing the performances of the two engines you would see they are virtually identical. Since the 605G was derived from the 605A, DB probably decided eventually to keep the DB 605 A designation.

And, as I said before, undoubtedly one of these engines was sitting around, so they slapped a DB 603G supercharger on it, and viola, a DB 605GS. Then a 75ltr MW tank behind the camera, and a GM-1 unit in the left wing, and you have the a/c described in Nick's message. Oh, and don't forget the wing stubs.

Hope this helps,
George

Last edited by George Hopp; 13th October 2008 at 08:13. Reason: To increase size of attachments
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  #28  
Old 24th November 2008, 00:15
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Re: Bf 109 H in service with 5.(F)/123

I've just updated the article on my website with some information about a mission that the Bf 109 H was ordered to fly, a few days after the Normandy landings.
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  #29  
Old 24th November 2008, 05:45
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Re: Bf 109 H in service with 5.(F)/123

Boy, they certainly seem casual about the flying of that mission over the beaches. And, it sounds like they never did fly that mission, or am I wrong on that?
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  #30  
Old 24th November 2008, 09:17
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Re: Bf 109 H in service with 5.(F)/123

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Hopp View Post
Boy, they certainly seem casual about the flying of that mission over the beaches. And, it sounds like they never did fly that mission, or am I wrong on that?
I'm only up to about 14 June 1944 in the files so far, but no sign of it yet. I wonder if they managed any comparable coverage before the Ar 234s came on the scene?
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