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  #31  
Old 5th July 2005, 07:54
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: Me's vs Spits over North Africa: Who were those guys?

Lwulf:

Oh, no offense was taken--not at all...although given the performance of 92 sqdr's patrol, it might have been reasonable to assume a lack of operational experience...but unless we can actually pin down the date/time/pilots we may never really know...

NickM

PS: I also assumed that the REALLY inexperienced pilots would have been put in a P40 or Hurricane equipped squadron!
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  #32  
Old 7th August 2014, 06:47
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: Me's vs Spits over North Africa: Who were those guys?

BUMP!

With the publishing of Shores' new volume, I shall examine this question again.
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  #33  
Old 7th August 2014, 14:50
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Me's vs Spits over North Africa: Who were those guys?

Hi Nick

I didn't see the original enquiry back in 2005 - not sure if I had joined TOCH!

However, should you not find anything conclusive in Chris' latest tome, I thought that I should mention that I helped Leo Nomis write his memoirs (of his time with the Israelis in 1948/49) and included some details of his RAF service (the book is "The Desert Hawks" published in 1998)

Leo had several combats with Bf109s whilst with 92 Squadron. On 7 January 1943, he claimed a Bf109 probable for the loss of two 92 Sqn Spits; next day, 8 January, he claimed a Bf109 shot down.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Brian
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  #34  
Old 16th April 2015, 01:09
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: Me's vs Spits over North Africa: Who were those guys?

OK; after re-reading the second volume of Shores' new volume...sadly the fight between the two ME109 pilots & the Spits still remains a mystery.
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  #35  
Old 16th April 2015, 02:28
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: Me's vs Spits over North Africa: Who were those guys?

Nick,

I'm pretty sure the recollection of Leo Nomis in his account in "The Eagles' War" by Vern Haugland refers to the engagement of January 7.1943. Two Spitfires of 92 Sq were reported MIA, F/S T.R. Broomhall MIA and Sgt H. Patterson baled out, both at 1245-1250.

In the record, F/O Nomis claimed a Bf109 at 1250-1335. In his account, he mentions four casualties but I always take anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt.

On the German side, the Luftwaffe had some well known Jadgfliegern making 3 Spitfire claims: Hptm Anton Hackl at 1145, Fw. Ernst Wilhelm Reinert at 1203 and Lt. Lutz Wilhelm Burkhart at 1205. All were Ritterkreuz holders and were excellent fighter pilots.
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  #36  
Old 16th April 2015, 03:11
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: Me's vs Spits over North Africa: Who were those guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaki3152 View Post
Nick,

I'm pretty sure the recollection of Leo Nomis in his account in "The Eagles' War" by Vern Haugland refers to the engagement of January 7.1943. Two Spitfires of 92 Sq were reported MIA, F/S T.R. Broomhall MIA and Sgt H. Patterson baled out, both at 1245-1250.

In the record, F/O Nomis claimed a Bf109 at 1250-1335. In his account, he mentions four casualties but I always take anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt.

On the German side, the Luftwaffe had some well known Jadgfliegern making 3 Spitfire claims: Hptm Anton Hackl at 1145, Fw. Ernst Wilhelm Reinert at 1203 and Lt. Lutz Wilhelm Burkhart at 1205. All were Ritterkreuz holders and were excellent fighter pilots.
Thanks! And an Anton Hackl connection to boot. Yeah being up against those three (assuming that there were only JG 77 pilots three involved)-you'd definitely have your hands full--interesting:I checked Kacha's Experten website (Reinert is not on it) but Hackl's record doesn't list a vic on January 7 1943, but Burkhart does: 2 km SSE of a place called Buerat, which I guess is in Tunisia.

Last edited by NickM; 16th April 2015 at 03:17. Reason: clarification & typo
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  #37  
Old 16th April 2015, 09:12
MarkRS MarkRS is offline
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Re: Me's vs Spits over North Africa: Who were those guys?

Actually:
Buerat, or Buerat el Hussoun (Arabic: بويرات الحسون‎), is a village in western Libya, some 90 km (56 mi) west of Sirte
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  #38  
Old 16th April 2015, 23:41
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: Me's vs Spits over North Africa: Who were those guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRS View Post
Actually:
Buerat, or Buerat el Hussoun (Arabic: بويرات الحسون‎), is a village in western Libya, some 90 km (56 mi) west of Sirte
Thanks;
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  #39  
Old 21st April 2015, 03:43
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: Me's vs Spits over North Africa: Who were those guys?

Ultimately it occurred to me that, based on what I have read, fighting outnumbered was a regular event, so it seems that even outnumbered by and (probably) with technical parity on the part of the WDAF, the jagdwaffe pilots seemed to always have the edge based on their experience and/or their self confidence.
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