D-Day Ju 87 massacre

[Nick Beale]

If "St. Voves" is the place south east of Troyes or the one south east of Chartres, either is a long way from the Normandy battlefront.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Guys

I am puzzled by certain things regarding these losses.

WNr 7868 is not the V3. As far as I know this was WNr 4923 D-UKYQ.
(In this context I would also be interested in why Griel in his Ju 87 book says the V3 was D-UKYQ on page 40 and D-IBXF on page 43)

What are all those C versions listed as lost? The C was a a proposed carrier based folding wing version and as far as I can tell from published sources only a few were built (or converted) but the main production was cancelled as was Germany's carrier. So what are they?

Cheers
Stig

[Gizmo]

Thanks for the list baraks!

Also 2653 seems to be D-3, there wasn't A-3 version.

[brewerjerry]

Hi,
Awesome, thanks for posting the details baraks.

This is the first time I have seen anyone post any Wn, details, etc, for these losses.


Cheers
Jerry

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Brewerjerry and Gizmo,
I remember a French site who had even the crew names ( Absa 39-45 ), BUT allas, they are not allowing searches on their files anymore. I found the site, but did not managed to search the Ju 87 losses I remember being covered during the Normandy Campaign. Maybe another member can guide us to the correct site?
I saved this information, but can not find it anymore...do not know if on the other computer back at my old home...will have to find out those losses, meanwhile someone can guide us to the search part of Absa site!
Yours
Adriano

[brewerjerry]

Hi
I remember the site well, it helped me sort out some research I was doing a few years back, sad if it is no longer available.

http://www.absa39-45.asso.fr/formula...laire_date.htm

even 'wayback internet machine' can't do anything
cheers
Jerry

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

Hi,
I'm interesting which Luftwaffe Ju 87 unit (training unit as I suppose) participated in D-Day combats vs USAAF Mustangs. It is possible to find details of Luftwaffe losses?

USAAF Ju 87 claims for 6th June 1944:
Orleans Aera, 505th FS/339. FG: three Ju 87 shot down.
Chartres Aera, around 21:15, HQ and 354th/355. FG against 15-plane Ju 87 formation: three Ju 87 shot down and one damaged + two destroyed on ground (after landing).
Janville Aera, around the same time, 357. FS/355. FG against low flying "V formation of three-plane Vics going westward": six Ju 87 shot down, one probably and five damaged + one destroyed on ground after landing. One P-51 shot down by Flak.

There were no 354/357FS Mustangs lost, I'm still looking for 339th possibility.

My father flew his first mission and shot down his first aircraft (Ju 87) in this fight.

354 Fortier, Norman Lt WR-N 42-103802 44-06-06 1 air Ju87 Chartres
354 Graham, Clarence 2Lt WR-M 42-106437 44-06-06 1 gnd Ju87 Janville
354 Marshall, Bert Jr Cpt WR-Z 42-106448 44-06-06 1 air Ju87 Chartres
354 Morris, Raymond Lt WR-M 42-106437 44-06-06 0.5 air Ju87 Chartres shared w/F.Taylor
354Taylor, Floyd 2Lt WR-L 42-106896 44-06-06 0.5 air Ju87 Chartres-Dire shared w/Morris
357 Bernoske, Robert Lt OS-N 43-24795 44-06-06 1 air Ju87 Janville
357 Cotter, John Lt OS-G 43-7027 44-06-06 1 air Ju87 Janville
357 Fuller, Leonard Lt OS-E 43-6886 44-06-06 1-1-1 air Ju87Janville
357 James, Wayne 2Lt OS-? 43-???? 44-06-06 1-0-2 air 1 gnd Ju87Janville
357 Kelley, Fred Cpt OS-D 43-???? 44-06-06 2 air Ju87Janville
357 Minchew, Les Cpt OS-O 42-106815 44-06-06 0-0-1 air Ju87Janville
357 Wilson, John Cpt OS-W 43-7101 44-06-06 0-0-1 air Ju87NE Janville
355H Dix, Gerald LtC YF-D 43-7164 44-06-06 0-0-1 air 1 gnd Ju87Chartres

[Gizmo]

drgondog,
My source for P-51 lost is "D-Day - The Air battle" by K. Delive. See page 124: [Ju 87s]" "Flying in V formation of three-plane Vics, and going westward toward the beach-head and flying on the deck. The formation was bounced, with claims listed bellow. Lt. Douglas was hit by Flak near Calais coming out and missing in action"
Also "Fighter Units and Pilots of the 8th USAAF" by K. D. Miller listing Lt. Walter A. Douglas (357th FS) as a POW, P-51B 42-106862, hit by Flak over Calais and bailed out off the coast. So probably Douglas was shot down by Flak after combat with Ju 87 formation.

BTW -This error on french website linked above, looks like to be result of attack by unfriendly software.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

drgondog,
My source for P-51 lost is "D-Day - The Air battle" by K. Delive. See page 124: [Ju 87s]" "Flying in V formation of three-plane Vics, and going westward toward the beach-head and flying on the deck. The formation was bounced, with claims listed bellow. Lt. Douglas was hit by Flak near Calais coming out and missing in action"
Also "Fighter Units and Pilots of the 8th USAAF" by K. D. Miller listing Lt. Walter A. Douglas (357th FS) as a POW, P-51B 42-106862, hit by Flak over Calais and bailed out off the coast. So probably Douglas was shot down by Flak after combat with Ju 87 formation.

BTW -This error on french website linked above, looks like to be result of attack by unfriendly software.

357FS
Phillips,Lt.George KIA Shot down by flak near La Mailleraye ~1325. Killed bailing out - hitting rudder.
OSH 43-6640 MACR 5506 FLAK Whitten Letter 357FS History

Douglass,Lt.Walter POW Lost,let down through cloud cover,hit by flak E Calais at approximately 2130.
OSB 42-106862 MACR 5513 FLAK Whitten Letter 357FS History



I was only taking exception to the comment of a loss (implied but not stated) due to the fight w/Ju 87's

Douglass was on the way home from the fight and letting down through the cloud cover to get his bearings. He was shot down by flak about 20 minutes after the fight was over.

My source is "Our Might Always - Volume I, History of the 355th FG, 355th TFW and FW" by Bill Marshall

It is a greatly expanded and researched history of the 355th that I did 25 years ago - and the primary source of Kent Miller's 355th data..

Regards,

Bill

[Gizmo]

OK, all clear.
Thanks