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Old 12th May 2010, 20:59
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AndreasB AndreasB is offline
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RAF Middle East Losses Wk ending 29-11-41

The RAF reported heavy losses in that week (AIR20/1934). They included

3x Fortress Cat. B (which I presume to mean B-17) and
2x D.C.2 Cat. B 1x D.C.2 Cat.E (could these be Douglas Bostons?)

Can someone provide some more background?

In case anyone is interested, they also report a Wellesley lost - I wonder if that was on ops in East Africa?

For the strength returns beginning November to February (AIR20/2021) they continue to report 3x Fortress as serviceable, and they do not report any D.C.2 on strength with the command at all for the year 1941 and 1942, but as I said, they might have been Bostons?

See here: http://crusaderproject.wordpress.com/2010/05/12/917/

I would very much appreciate to learn more about what went on here.

Many thanks!

All the best

Andreas

Last edited by AndreasB; 12th May 2010 at 21:06. Reason: Additional thought
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Old 13th May 2010, 16:40
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: RAF Middle East Losses Wk ending 29-11-41

Hello Andreas,

Aircraft Damage Categories
Cat B was Damaged, repairable either at a Maintenance Unit, a Civilian Repair Depot or at the Manufacturers.
Cat E was Written off, salvage impossible.
(ref: Bomber Losses in the ME & Med, vol 1 Gunby & Temple).

All the best
Alex
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  #3  
Old 13th May 2010, 19:44
paulmcmillan paulmcmillan is offline
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Re: RAF Middle East Losses Wk ending 29-11-41

I suspect the 3 B-17 are the three B-17 from 90 Sqn ones sent to Middle East

Which I think were AN521, AN529, AN530
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Old 14th May 2010, 09:34
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Re: RAF Middle East Losses Wk ending 29-11-41

Alex Sorry, I mistyped - the Fortresses and the 2x D.C.2 are Cat. E, not B, and the 1x D.C.2 is Cat.B. Paul, many thanks for this. Do you have an idea on what they were used for? As for my thought that the D.C.2 could refer to Bostons, that is apparently not the case, since both Bostons and D.C.2 feature in the losses for week ending 13 December 41 (2x and 1x Cat. E, respectively). So I am still at a loss regarding the quality of the data - one of the two tables must, one thinks, per force be wrong. But which one? All the best Andreas
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Old 14th May 2010, 10:47
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is online now
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Re: RAF Middle East Losses Wk ending 29-11-41

Hi Andreas,

Week Ending 13-12-1941:

Flight Lieutenant Howell (of 31 Sqn.RAF) was shot down, the date being the 8th December (1941), although on this occasion he was second pilot, the captain being Warrant Officer David "Lummie" Lord (later VC). Flying in (DC-2) DG475 "X" they were carrying supplies to LG138. Ten miles north-east of their objective they were attacked by three German fighters, and with both pilots slightly wounded and one passenger dead, they were forced to land in the desert. With the crew they walked to LG138 but were flying the next day.

See:
First in the Indian Skies.
Franks,Norman L R.
p.76

A detachment of No.31 Sqn RAF, was operating in the Middle East (Bilbeis and Maaten Bagush).

Col.

Last edited by Col Bruggy; 14th May 2010 at 14:00.
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Old 14th May 2010, 12:08
Henk Welting Henk Welting is offline
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Re: RAF Middle East Losses Wk ending 29-11-41

Gents,
Air Britain DA100-DZ999 has DG475 (ex NC14924) date 25-12-1941.

Henk.
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Old 14th May 2010, 13:41
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is online now
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Re: RAF Middle East Losses Wk ending 29-11-41

Hi Henk,

Three for (8th), two against (25th).

December 1941: North Africa.

Day Phase: 8 December 1941.

8.12.41 Ofw. Otto Schulz 4./JG 27 Douglas N. Ridotto 13:10 Film C. 2036/II Anerk: Nr.77.

Be interesting to see what "Though Without Anger", has to say, if anything!

Col.
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Old 14th May 2010, 15:28
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: RAF Middle East Losses Wk ending 29-11-41

Hello Col,
"Though Without Anger", has 25-Dec-41.
Alex
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Old 14th May 2010, 16:54
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is online now
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Re: RAF Middle East Losses Wk ending 29-11-41

Hello Alex,

Thanks for that.

Interestingly, Jagdgeschwader 27/Ring & Girbig (p.133, 8th ed. 1994) , records Schulz's claim on the 8-12-1941 as a "Boston". Likewise, Fighters Over The Desert p.75.

One of the sources I used for the DC-2 loss, was Chaz Bowyer's: For Valour:The Air VCs (p.406, 1992 Grub Street ed.). It quotes 8-12-1941.

Col.

Last edited by Col Bruggy; 14th May 2010 at 19:32.
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Old 14th May 2010, 19:25
Leendert Leendert is offline
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Re: RAF Middle East Losses Wk ending 29-11-41

Andreas,

As far as I could find, then 90 Squadron sent four Fortresses to Egypt.
A fifth one had engine problems and stayed in England (AN527).
Of the four Fortresses two were lost: AN529 on 8 Nov 41 (forced landing)and AN521 on 10 Jan 1942 (engine fire).

The other two (AN518 and AN532) survived their Mideast adventure.

Regards,

Leendert
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