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Old 16th December 2011, 00:01
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Mystery II./JG3 loss on June 9, 1940 for Oblt. Obehner in the Reims area???

Hello,

In proofing part of the German EOE loss list, Peter Cornwell has the following listing for June 9, 1940:

"II./JG3 Messerschmitt Bf109E-4. Shot down by fighters over Reims. FF Oberlt [ ] Obehner missing. Aircraft 100% write-off.
This doubtful loss is as quoted in the Luftwaffe Quartermaster General Returns, the pilot originally reported as’ killed’ but this later being amended to ‘missing’. The entire entry was subsequently deleted."

Does anyone have any insight or information that would help resolve this strange entry? Rob? If we can ID this pilot, I need his full name and Staffel assignment, as well as a crash location, if appropriate.

Regards,
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Old 16th December 2011, 10:05
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is online now
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Re: Mystery II./JG3 loss on June 9, 1940 for Oblt. Obehner in the Reims area???

Larry,

May I bring you another strange piece of the puzzle?

In his recently-released volume Nr.3 "La guerre aérienne au-dessus du département des Ardennes juin 1944 - mai 1945" (ISBN 9-782912-775405) - by the way, VERY interesting - French author Pierre (et Françoise) ROGER quotes the strange case a Bf 109 E-1 unearthed in Coucy (6 km E of Rethel, 40 km NE of Reims) some years ago.

The DB601 (obviously re-dumped in the crater after the crash) was recovered among few fuselage parts. Very few bones fragments - not an entire human being - were also found and handed to Noyers-Pont-Maugis cemetery. No witness and date of fall given.

I agree your data seems to be a clue albeit a little bit puzzling.

Was the body of Coucy recovered after the crash and buried in an unknown location and perhaps lost by an administrative way?

A data plate was also found:

Flugzeugteile
Best. 11...8
Berlin-Tempelhof
Com. 20864-9
Zeichn. 109 800-05
Typ u.Grp BF.109 E etc.

Of course, any hint would be appreciated!

Best regards.

ClinA-78
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Old 16th December 2011, 10:34
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Wink Re: Mystery II./JG3 loss on June 9, 1940 for Oblt. Obehner in the Reims area???

Bonjour Larry Hickley,

The pilot is Oblt Otto Boehner (Stab II./JG53) on mission Attigny – Aisne. He took off in late and was shot down between Stenay and Attigny. He belly landed and was taken prisoner of war by a tank regiment (confirmed in French archive). He was not pleased with his captivity in French hands.
The entire entry is deleted because this loss was recorded twice: one on 13/7/40 n° 30 and a second time on 11/06/40 n° 9 (this entry was indeed deleted).

I asked a question about I./ZG 2 losses. Have you anything about those losses?

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27866

Yours sincerely
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Old 16th December 2011, 13:10
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Andreas Brekken Andreas Brekken is offline
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Re: Mystery II./JG3 loss on June 9, 1940 for Oblt. Obehner in the Reims area???

Hi, all

One of the losses with the most references to GenQu documents:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=129091

Regards,
Andreas B
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Old 16th December 2011, 18:25
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Mystery II./JG3 loss on June 9, 1940 for Oblt. Obehner in the Reims area???

Hello all,

Thanks for your comments. Based upon the info provided here, Peter Cornwell has removed this entry from our EOE Luft loss data base. We already have the Oblt Otto Boehner (Stab II./JG53) entry there, so that part of the problem is solved. Does anyone have any photos of Boehner's a/c belly landed? If I recall, Jochen Prien has excellent photos of Boehner's regularly assigned a/c in his books on JG53, so these will be in the EOE data base, but I don't recall ever seeing one of this belly landing.

I don't want to see ClinA-78's comments glossed over by this post. Is there any evidence that would lead to a resolution of the identity of this crash? This could well be of interest to the EOE research team (1939-40 period).

Once again, cooperation has provided a quick solution to a problem.

Regards,
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Old 17th December 2011, 10:35
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Re: Mystery II./JG3 loss on June 9, 1940 for Oblt. Obehner in the Reims area???

Bonjour,

For the Bf109 shot down at Coucy, the French archive confirmed this is an aircraft from JG 53: a Spade was seen on one piece.
This is also an engine DB601A. Top specialists (French and British) of the Bf 109 have been on the site and told me the Messerschmitt was a E-3 type and I trust them.
According to an article published by the village: large parts of the body were found as his signal pistol.
The position of the engine is weird and it could have been re-dumped in the crater, but I don’t think so. The pilot was found indeed in the back of the engine where he should be: aircraft stalled and fell in spin?
Unfortunately I can’t be certain. We don’t have any precise report...

For me this is Fw Alfred Stark shot down by Fairey Battle of No. 218 Squadron who claimed indeed Bf 109 on mission this afternoon of May 14th 1940.

Yours sincerely
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