Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 1st April 2013, 22:38
eknutson eknutson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 163
eknutson is on a distinguished road
Re: Help to solve the real identity off me109 at sola aviation museum

We need more info on this one
07.07.1943 Bf 109G-2 /G1 W.Nr. 14055 NI + BY White 3 1./JG 5
Feldwebel Josef Sommeregger
This aircraft should have served with 11(H)/JG 2 before coming to Norway, may be even in Tunis together with Jg53 ( hence the trop colure on wings ). Repaird / modified ?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 2nd April 2013, 09:04
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 2,735
Matti Salonen is on a distinguished road
Re: Help to solve the real identity off me109 at sola aviation museum

1942-07-30, 11./JG 2, Bf 109G-1, 14055, Fl.Pl. Audembert, Notlandung infolge Feindbeschuß. Bruch 70 %.
1943-07-07, 1./JG 5, Bf 109G-2, 14055, 3 weiße, Südwestlich Egersund, 90 km südwestlich Stavanger, Luftkampf mit Hampden. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Fw Sommeregger, Josef, vermißt

Matti
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 3rd April 2013, 00:23
eknutson eknutson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 163
eknutson is on a distinguished road
Re: Help to solve the real identity off me109 at sola aviation museum

Thanks for your confirmation Matti. This is the real identity of our airframe.
BF109 G1 W.Nr 14055. Built by Messerschmitt AG, Regensburg. Date March 1942, in block 14039-14063. Stkz found in LMBD database says NI + BY

Deliverd directly to JG2 11(H) staffel ?

Crashed 1942-07-30, 11./JG 2, Bf 109G-1, 14055, Fl.Pl. Audembert, Notlandung infolge Feindbeschuß. Bruch 70 %.

Rebuilt to G2 standard in a repairshopp in France ? Is there any info were JG2 sendt the damaged plane to.

Rebuilt by merging G1 with F4 trop airframe? we have a lot of parts / numbers sugesting this teory. Even the engine trottle linkage on the firewall ( 3 different positions ) our was bolted in the upper one saying E motor ( 601E for F4 )

Ended in the northsee serving with 1/JG5
1943-07-07, 1./JG 5, Bf 109G-2, 14055, 3 weiße, Südwestlich Egersund, 90 km südwestlich Stavanger, Luftkampf mit Hampden. Bruch 100 %.

Causing the plane to crash was: RAAF 455 SQD
P.5302 - S UB - S
Crew S/Ldr B.R.D.O CONNOR (P)
F/O R.N LINDEMAN (N)
P/O C.H WALTERS (W/AG)
F/Sgt COLLINS (W/AG)
Off on Rover patrol 7.7.42 Kl 16.20 Engaged by 2 enemy aircraft Kl 18.50, reported by tail gunner. 1 aircraft hit by gunner and brok off, 2nd attacked 5 times befor braking off. Safe home after taking " violent evastive action" to get away from the enemy.

So now we hope people have picture / information on thees Aircrafts / happenings.
First we whould like to know the history off the G1 airframe in France.

Picture showing the engine linkage bolt on E-Motor position ( middle is 605 )
Attached Images
File Type: jpg STILLING MOTOR STAG 1.jpg (53.9 KB, 80 views)
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 3rd April 2013, 19:09
eknutson eknutson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 163
eknutson is on a distinguished road
Re: Help to solve the real identity off me109 at sola aviation museum

More puzzles, this time the main landing gears. Off spesial interest are the Lh side. It has a 8 followed by a stamp, same is found on underside off lower main spar. Number 687 can then be 6687 ( WNF F2 block 6651 - 6822). Fits in with the gear attachments. Supports the teory about usage off a F2 frame to rebuild on. The number 388 gives no meaning at the moment. Then we have the numeral 3.5 singned by someone. May be some measurment for rigging or gear assembley. Then we have the letter G, can this be Gauche ( left in French) Repair facilety in France or Belgium ?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Rh leg 4 red si.JPG (98.8 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg under hoved bjelke Red si.JPG (37.7 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg Lh leg 2 red si.JPG (122.4 KB, 53 views)

Last edited by eknutson; 3rd April 2013 at 20:03.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 3rd April 2013, 19:52
eknutson eknutson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 163
eknutson is on a distinguished road
Re: Help to solve the real identity off me109 at sola aviation museum

Rh main landing gear. Number 7813 givs no meaning and does not fit in any known W.Nr block. May be a F4 block. Here also numeral 3.4 signed by someone. Then there are something looking like an (F) on same spot as (G on lh). If this sholud mean right hand side on French, letter D for droit sholud have been there.
Number 499 have no meaning at the moment

We have 3 like thees: 224 on main spar, 388 lh gear 499 rh gear

Also noateble are the ecsessive wear / corrosion on the middle numerals. May be this parts / airframe was stored for a long period of time.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 4th April 2013, 01:45
harrison987 harrison987 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,235
harrison987 is on a distinguished road
Re: Help to solve the real identity off me109 at sola aviation museum

Hi,

Numbers on the gear legs have no relation to the werk number of the aircraft. I have numerous gear legs (Me109 F-K), and none of the numbers coincide with the main werk number of the aircraft they were removed from.

The only time a werk number was stamped, was if it was going into a part that was never going to be removed or changed out.

The Main Spar and Radio Hatch are the 2 best places. Did you check the radio hatch for a written or stamped number?

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 4th April 2013, 10:30
eknutson eknutson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 163
eknutson is on a distinguished road
Re: Help to solve the real identity off me109 at sola aviation museum

Hi Mike, this is what we are taking about, as you see no tail , no radio hatch, no id plates. So if you can post picure insted with places to look and what to look fore, maybe we can spot someting on the old pictures taken 23 years ago.
Tought this aircraft was known,as it is the only G1 under restoration
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Vrak.jpg (114.1 KB, 108 views)
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 4th April 2013, 16:17
harrison987 harrison987 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,235
harrison987 is on a distinguished road
Re: Help to solve the real identity off me109 at sola aviation museum

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

Okay...

There is one data plate behind the firewall...left side, near the floor. This also has the aircraft werk number (if it is still there).

The wing root ocassionally had the number painted on it...but in this case, the main spar is going to be the best option.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 4th April 2013, 16:54
edNorth edNorth is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,969
edNorth is on a distinguished road
Re: Help to solve the real identity off me109 at sola aviation museum

Three facts, or as I understand them be facts:

1. W.Nr. plates indentifying factory, serials or manufacturing dates were ordered NOT installed anymore after late 1942 (i.e. effective for Ju 88s about March/April 1943).

2. After that only the W.Nr., secret factory code (three letter lower case ammunition code) and Abnahme date were given. This applied to both main and part plates, and frequently dates were not stamped on part plates, So if this Bf 109 had gone thugh overhaul or repair after late 1942, do not expect these be still attached.

3. The main Luftwaffe ID or W.Nr. belonged to the rear fuselage, the section below and/or forward of the rudder, and to this was attached (after 1941 a triangular Iron plate - the emergency dataplate). Everything else, all other parts (after 1937) was considered and installed on "ready" and "available" bases at repair factories.

Althou it is likely not in doupt which Bf 109 this was, its main I.D. section making this a Luftwaffe aircraft is missing - and in my mind can not be considered a whole aircraft, because if it has new rear fuselage fitted, it should bear that parts Serial (or W.Nr.) - else I agree with others, numbers stamped on parts are not W.Nr´s. and every caution should be made trying make them match with "blocks" or specific aircraft.

Best regards
Ed

Last edited by edNorth; 4th April 2013 at 19:45. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 9th April 2013, 16:16
klemchen klemchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 60
klemchen is on a distinguished road
Re: Help to solve the real identity off me109 at sola aviation museum

Hello taitbb,

your "patch" from your post of 26th March at 17:46 is the cover of a large hatch on the bottom of fuselage section 2 on starboard. That hatch provided access to some control mechanism.

Regards,
klemchen
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Update:107 Plane crash in WWII, 30 km around of Heidelberg Area Part 1 Klaus Deschner Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 1st June 2010 01:07
104 Plane crash in WWII, 30 km around of Heidelberg Area Part 1 Klaus Deschner Allied and Soviet Air Forces 4 17th September 2009 08:17
Andrew Cresswell & Lashenden Air Warfare Museum Trevor Matthews Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 11th February 2009 08:46
Luftwaffe Pilots at the Speyer Aviation Museum - October 20, 2007??? Mark Copeland Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 12th August 2007 23:04
Identity of FW190 and Me109 losses March 1944 Tony Kearns Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 21st January 2005 18:10


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net