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  #1  
Old 8th August 2017, 12:20
sveahk sveahk is offline
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Ludwig Nitsch 38 "kills"...?

Uffz Ludwig Nitsch from JG54 escaped with his Fw190 as one of the last german pilots from Courland, and crashlanded in southern Sweden on 8th of May 1945. After some adventures (which you can read about here: http://www.forcedlandingcollection.s...141-Fw190.html , he was allowed to stay in Sweden. So far so good...

But trying to find out more about his time in the Luftwaffe - didn't work out so well. Bo Widfeldt in his Emergency landings in Sweden books and the before mentioned FLC(ForcedLanding Collection) say he had 38 "kills" during the war, 3 B-17 and the rest on the eastern front. Another article mentions he was only 18 when he left for Sweden.

Checking in the back of "Jagdgeschwader 54 Grünherzjäger" by Hans-Ekkehard Bob (from 2009) we find the list "Luftsiege der Piloten des Jagdgeschwadres 54" - but we don't even find Ludwig Kitsch mentioned there...nowhere...The same in the internet...no shot down enemy planes to be found under his name.

So - can anyone put some light on this discrepancy? Did he really have those "kills"? I mean, a couple of "kills" can disappear, especially at the end of the war - but 38 is quite a number...!?

Greetings and thanks Hans K
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Old 8th August 2017, 13:40
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Alfred.MONZAT Alfred.MONZAT is offline
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Re: Ludwig Nitsch 38 "kills"...?

Kracker's archive mention 2 victories on 7 May 1945 over Pe-2s. Look like the 38 victories came from the interrogatory (and we all know german pilots told a lot of things, mostly wrong, in them).
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Old 8th August 2017, 18:59
sveahk sveahk is offline
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Re: Ludwig Nitsch 38 "kills"...?

Thanks Alfred - my view entirely...just find 2 "kills" for real and 36 made up quite a daring fantasy game. One wonders why he took that risk...?

Of course assuming his 36, or close to that number, don't pop up in some unknown documents!

Hans K
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Old 9th August 2017, 08:43
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Alfred.MONZAT Alfred.MONZAT is offline
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Re: Ludwig Nitsch 38 "kills"...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sveahk
Thanks Alfred - my view entirely...just find 2 "kills" for real and 36 made up quite a daring fantasy game.
Well and we should be cautious with victories claimed (or claimed to have been claimed, as I am not sure of the source of these 2 victories) in 1945, particulary the late ones.

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Originally Posted by sveahk
One wonders why he took that risk...?
What risk ? Lying to a foreign officer ?
We don't know if he continued to perpetuate this post-War.
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Old 9th August 2017, 10:15
sveahk sveahk is offline
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Re: Ludwig Nitsch 38 "kills"...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfred.MONZAT View Post
What risk ? Lying to a foreign officer ?
We don't know if he continued to perpetuate this post-War.
In this case, Sweden eventually permitted him to stay and gave him Swedish citizenship, he got married and stayed in Sweden until his death - so the "risk" would have more been one of reputation. Furthermore, post-war he was interviewed at least once regarding his Luftwaffe time(1990) - obviously making no change in his wartime story...
Hans K

Last edited by sveahk; 10th August 2017 at 12:38.
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Old 9th August 2017, 11:38
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Ludwig Nitsch 38 "kills"...?

Hans

I have three books by Widfeldt and in none of them does he say anything about Nitsch claims during the war.
There was a fourth one I did not buy since I assumed it was a direct translation of his work in Swedish, so if it is in there can you advise exactly what Bo says in his book?

This is in fact the first time I come across this claim and I am not at all sure it was made during the interrogation in 1945 after he had escaped to Sweden. It feels more like something said during the interview in 1990 and also somehow feels either like a misunderstanding or an old man not having come to terms with himself.

Cheers
Stig
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Old 9th August 2017, 13:21
sveahk sveahk is offline
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Re: Ludwig Nitsch 38 "kills"...?

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Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik View Post
Hans

I have three books by Widfeldt and in none of them does he say anything about Nitsch claims during the war.
True, bad formulated from my side. Widfeldt has Nitsch in his books, but the 38 kills claim are in the above mentioned FLC-article. Thanks Stig for the correction.

AFAIK one connection between Widfeldt and the Forced Landing Collection exists: The Widfeldt collection of documents have, if I'm right, been taken over by FLC. I've asked FLC per e-mail, no answer yet.

In those documents we can possibly find out if Ludwig Nitsch talked about his 38 kills already in 1945 or if that came later...

Greetings Hans K
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Old 9th August 2017, 14:45
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Ludwig Nitsch 38 "kills"...?

Thanks Hans

It would, incidentally, be interesting to know if Nitsch wife actually was present during that interview in 1990. From what I could read it seems she was....

Cheers
Stig
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Old 10th August 2017, 12:20
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Ludwig Nitsch 38 "kills"...?

Hi Guys

Interesting story. I am quite sure that he would not escape my research, but has. All claims would have to have been made December 1944 to May 1945 to escape me(or have been with other units), and that would mean he would have been the second highest scoring pilot behind Gunther Josten during this period! Yet we are told he was on the Eastern front(presumably with JG 54) for three years. He does appear in the losses for 1./JG 54 for 8th May 1945 as an unteroffizier as Ludwig Nitsch, so it can't be a case of a name change. Also he'd have to be a extremely poor pilot to have spent thirty months on the Eastern front with no claims at all!!!, moreover he doesn't appear in the losses of JG 54 before the last day of the war, again very,very unusual.

Guess we need to keep digging.

Johannes
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Old 25th October 2017, 11:51
sveahk sveahk is offline
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Re: Ludwig Nitsch 38 "kills"...?

Here we have another puzzle piece in the Luftwaffe life of Ludwig Nitsch - obviously he flew with these units(thanks Mikael O.):

1.FFS A 10
2.from 24 april 1944 with I./JG 108 (2. Staffel)
3.and from 6 january 1945 with I./JG 54 (3. Staffel)

Furthermore...in the book "Schutzlos in Schweden" from 1995, written by Enar Runsteen(=Helmut Schulze), Ludwig Nitsch tells his life story - but only from 8.5.1945 and onwards. He uses the alias Ludwig Niemen in the book, recalls his flight from Kurland, crashlanding in Sweden, meeting his future wife, his internment in Backamo and his adventurous escapes, until he could settle down in Sweden. Eighteen quite exciting pages!

And there he mentions in the beginning of his story the shooting down of a Russian "Type P 2", but nothing more - actually otherwise almost nil about his time in the Luftwaffe.

Also, in an interview, his son doesn't recall ever hearing anything about "38" of anything.

So, in the end, what do we have - a mix-up of persons...?

Regards

Hans K

Last edited by sveahk; 25th October 2017 at 16:18.
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