JG 301 on 17 December 1944

[Frank Olynyk]

Nick Beale,

There was no 481st BG, or Group of any kind (not listed in Maurer Maurer's AF Combat Units). I suspect this is actually the 461st BG. Could you tell me the MACR number that you found, so I can check it against my files, to make sure I didn't overlook it?

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Nick Beale]

Hi Frank, it was MACR 10682 which I found by searching B-24 losses for 12/17/1944 at http://www.armyairforces.com/Data/MACR.aspx which gives the Group as "481". I then looked it up on Fold3.com but looking again (and zooming in closer) I see it's on the actual MACR form as 451st BG/726th BS.

[John Manrho]

It''s seems to me the claims of JG 301 might not be on December 17th? Are these claims validated by original documents?

Thanks,

John

[Jochen Prien]

Nick and John,

I have since come to the conclusion that this is most likely a case of a wrong date and that the day we are actually talking about is 15 December, when the 8t USAAF did attack targets in the Hannover / Kassel area. The only known loss was listed on the 15th, whereas on the 17th not a single loss through enemy action was reported by JG301.

But every answer brings about new questions/problems - the attacks were flown by B-17s of 1st and 3rd BD, whereas only a small screening force of 9 B-24s was dispatched, which suffered no losses as far as I can see. Reschke in his account however expressly mentions a small formation of B-24s.

So for the time being and with all neccessary reservations I take it that JG 301 was employed to take on the incursion of a bomber formation that apparently headed for its bases and encountered the B-24s of the small screening force.

Any better idea ?

KR

Jochen

[Rainer]

Don Caldwell asked the same question in this forum six years ago:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=19711

[Nokose]

In Willi Reschke book Jagdgeschwader 301/302 "Wilde Sau", he listed this date as the 17 Dec 1944 with the results:
Fw. Willy Reschke 9./JG 301 B-24 (17) and P-51 (18) south of Göttingen (confirmed by gun camera)
Obfw. Hans Todt 8./JG 301 P-47 (6) same location
Uffz. Helmut Brenner 6./JG 301 B-24 (2) between Hanover and Kassel

I've heard that some of his versions in the book might be off but I have nothing that can confirm that either.

[Frank Olynyk]

Nick,
Thanks for the MACR reference. I do in fact have that in my database. I started with the MACR list that can be found on USAFHRA microfilm A1114. Although if any one does order it, you should be sure to request the CD version, rather than the microfilm, since you can enlarge the PDF images on the CD without effort.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Frank Olynyk]

Jochen,
In your original post you referenced JG 301 combats with B-24s and P-38s. Could you check your references again? I checked my copy of Reschke's book, and Nokose's comment above, indicating claims against 2 B-24s, a P-51 and a P-47. The reference to a P-47 is important, because none of the 15th AF fighter groups were using P-47s; they were either flying P-38s or P-51s. Which would imply this was a raid involving 2nd Bomb Division B-24s, and the P-47s of the 56th FG, the only 8th AF fighter group flying P-47s. And while some 9th AF fighter groups did escort 8th AF missions (especially the 354th FG), once the Bulge started I suspect the 9th AF P-47s were all involved in ground attack. And the 354th was flying P-47s at this point, and would not switch back to P-51s for a month or two.

Presumably therefore, you are looking for an 8th AF mission, not on Dec 17, involving a small force of 2nd BD B-24s (possibly lost, or hitting a target of opportunity), escorted by P-47s and P-51s, possibly involving actual losses to any of the three types. Freeman's Mighty Eighth War Diary may be a help here.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Joerg Dietsche]

Jochen,

sorry, but Willi Reschke in his book "Jagdgeschwader 301/302 Wilde Sau" does not mention engagements with P-38, only with B-24s and P-51s and victories in the area south of Göttingen and between Hannover and Kassel. Lt Walter Tauscher was wounded over Göttingen. There is a notion that a number of Pilots were not mentioned or did not show up by names and might be lost or wounded in combat in those days without any entry in the loss lists.

Jörg Dietsche

[Rainer]

Originally Posted by Jochen Prien

I have since come to the conclusion that this is most likely a case of a wrong date and that the day we are actually talking about is 15 December, when the 8t USAAF did attack targets in the Hannover / Kassel area. The only known loss was listed on the 15th, whereas on the 17th not a single loss through enemy action was reported by JG301.

USAAF fighter pilots made no claims on 15 December 1944 and there are only eight MACR in the ETO for this day:
15th AF lost two B-24 on a mission to Linz, Austria
9th AF lost two P-47 and one B-26 during tactical operations
8th AF lost one B-17 and one P-51 crashing in England while returning from Germany, only one P-51 was reported lost over Germany: when the engine of 44-15014 seized up after a coolant leak and the pilot had to bail out near Münster