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  #11  
Old 22nd January 2007, 05:07
Klaus Schiffler Klaus Schiffler is offline
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Roger Freeman in his book, Mighty Eighth War Diary, states that Category E covers crashes in the UK or friendly territory as well as aircraft that managed to return but were considered to be beyond economical repair. The category of Missing in Action include aircraft which were downed over enemy territory or at sea. Thus, any 8th AF aircraft which was shot down by German intruders would be included in Category E as well as those two B-24s mentioned above.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 15:44
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Rob - according to the The Mighty Eighth Combat Chronology you have the 1st and 3rd BD losses transposed.

Their records and Macrs show the 1BD with 1CW,41CW, 40 CW and 94CW lost a total of 10 (8 to flak), flying in middle of bomber stream. They show two B-17s downed by GF, one at Hannover (303BG) and one over Berlin (384BG).

My fathers group, the 355th FG had the duty of escorting the 1st BD that day and only had two small engagements during the escort in and return to point of relief by 56th FG near Dummer Lake. They observed one B-17 going down to fighters and shot down one of the fighters making the attack between Hannover and Brunswick.
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Old 24th January 2007, 10:30
Rob Romero Rob Romero is offline
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Mission 327: 29 April 1944: Target -Friedrichstrasse Railroad Station Berlin

Assigned Take Off Combat Sorties Bomb Targets
Bombers 751 679 669 618
Fighters 814
TOTAL 1493

Duration of Raid over Berlin: Less than 38 Minutes
11:12 Alarm Sounds with arrival of 452nd BG
11:50 All Clear following departure of 379th BG

618 Bombers Drop 1271 Tons of Bombs: 2.057 Tons per Plane (4,113 Lbs. of Bombs per Plane)
Bombing in 8/10ths cover achieving “Fair Results”

8th AF Estimates put Luftwaffe Defense of the Capital at 350 Fighters with Opposition charachterized as “Fierce.”

3rd Division (B-17) -Leading Division
45th Combat Wing (96BG/452BG/388BG)
4A Combat Wing (385BG/447BG)
13th Combat Wing (390BG /95BG)
4B Combat Wing (100BG/4BG)
236 Assigned -218 Combat Sorties -196 Targets Bomb (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets)
28 B-17s are lost & 161 damaged
4 KIA 20 WIA & 260 MIA

1st Division (B-17)
1st Combat Wing (91BG/381BG/398BG)
40th Combat Wing (305BG/92BG/306BG)
41st Combat Wing (303BG/379BG/384BG)
94th Combat Wing (401BG/457BG/351BG)
263 Assigned -228 Combat Sorties -210 B-17s Bomb Berlin
10 B-17s are lost & 150 damaged
1 KIA 7 WIA & 100 MIA.

94th BG Participated –Division/Combat Wing Unknown

2nd Division (B-24) Ran into Scattered Groups of 1st Division over Target Area
14th Combat Wing (44BG/392BG)
2nd Combat Wing (389BG/453BG/445BG)
96th Combat Wing (458BG/467BG /466BG/467BG)
20th Combat Wing (93BG/446BG/448BG)
252 Assigned -233 Combat Sorties -212 B-17s Bomb Berlin
25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair & 121 damaged
13 KIA 11 WIA & 246 MIA


Fighter Escort
117 P-38s, 463 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-47s & 234 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-51s
3 P-38s & 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair
7 P-38s, 16 P-47s & 7 P-51s are damaged
1 WIA & 12 MIA

Division Assigned Sortie Bomb Target
3rd Division (B-17) 236 218 196 (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets)
1st Division (B-17) 263 228 210
B-17s 499 446 406
2nd Division (B-24) 252 233 212 -Trailing Division
TOTAL 751 679 618

Mission 327 Casualties
Bomber Casualties
4 KIA 20 WIA 260 MIA (3rd Division) -Leading Division
1 KIA 7 WIA 100 MIA (1st Division)
13 KIA 11 WIA 246 MIA (2nd Division) -Trailing Division
18 KIA 38 WIA 606 MIA
Fighter Casualties
1 WIA 12 MIA
Total Casualties
18 KIA 39 WIA 618 MIA

Mission 327 Losses
Lost Beyond Repair Damaged
28 B-17s 161 B-17s (3rd Division) -Leading Division
10 B-17s 1 B-17 150 B-17s (1st Division)
38 B-17s 1 B-17 311 B-17s
25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s (2nd Division) -Trailing Division
63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers

(P-47s & P-51s -8th/9th Air Forces)

Combat Sorties
Bombers Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged
3rd Division 28 B-17s 161 B-17s 189 B-17s
1st Division 10 B-17s 1 B-17 150 B-17s 161 B-17s
446 B-17s 38 B-17s 1 B-17 311 B-17s 350 B-17s
233 B-24s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s 148 B-24s
679 Bombers 63 Bombers 3 Bombers 432 Bombers 498 Bombers

63 Bombers Fail to Return
-Apparently 47 Bombers were lost to Lufwaffe fighters
-At least 9 Bombers were lost to Flak
-7 Bombers lost to ???

432 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak -Apparently 107 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak)
3 Category E Damage (Bombers Lost BEFORE Landing)
? Category D Damage
? Category C Damage
? Category B Damage
? Category A Damage

Fighters Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged
463 P-47s 1 P-47 16 P-47s 17 P-47s
234 P-51s 10 P-51s 7 P-51s 17 P-51s
117 P-38s 3 P-38s 7 P-38s 10 P-38s
814 Fighters 13 Lost 1 Beyond Repair 30 Damaged 44 Lost /Damaged

31 Fighters Damaged
1 Category E Damage P-47
? Category D Damage
? Category C Damage
? Category B Damage
? Category A Damage

TOTAL Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged
679 Bombers 63 Bombers 3 Bombers 432 Bombers 498 Bombers
814 Fighters 13 Fighters 1 P-47 30 Fighters 44 Fighters
1493 Sorties 76 Lost 4 Beyond Repair 462 Damaged 542 Lost /Damaged


USAAF Combat Claims
TOTAL Fighters Bombers
Shot Down 95 22 73
Probable 33
Damaged 48

21-28 Luftwaffe Fighters are Lost


1) Bf 109G-1 (Wrk. No.?) Heinz Knoke (31) There is the interesting story from Knoke’s book “I Flew For the Führer” that on 29 April, Knoke was shot down by a ‘P-47’ (he officially claimed a P-51) but as his tormentor overshot, Knoke pulled his flaming mount towards the enemy and shot him down in turn! The pilots parachuted and when Knoke was awaken from unconsiousness by the American, he told his ‘POW’ that he was Knoke’s 26th victim (Sic 25th). The American, since identified as Capt. James Cannon (354FG/353FS P-51) allegedly countered that Knocke was his 17th. It has been suggested that actually Cannon mentioned that he had shot down a Do 217 and that Knocke misunderstood this, or else the American was not about to be outdone by the pilot he had shot down.

Further Breakdown

Secondary/Diversionary Missions
Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss.


14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss.

TACTICAL OPERATIONS (9th Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area.

I counted 83 Luftwaffe Victory claims, 5 Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and 26 Herausabschüß Claims (HSS/Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) for a total of 114 Luftwaffe Claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and -surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM symposium in 2002).
A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 88 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down -a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 88 aircraft shot down and perhaps 61-67 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (69.32%-78.41% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 12 of these 88 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) - suggesting that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive rubber stamp treatment in assesing their claims.

83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation)
5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples)
88 Total Victory Claims
+
26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled)
114 Total Claims

Luftwaffe Victories Linked to Individual Pilots (2)

Pilot Aircraft ClaimUnit Type Serial # Grp/Sqn Pilot Time Location
Oblt. Heinz Knoke Bf 109G-1 (25 of 31) 5/JG11 P-51 43-6424 354/353 Capt. James Cannon (2.5) POW1150-1200 Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. Klein Gleidingen/Groß Gleidingen
Maj. Walter Barte Bf-110G? (?? Of 23) Stab III/NJG3 B-17G 42-31241 303/427 2Lt Howard J. Bohle 13:28 ‘Spirit of Wanett’ -Flak/Bf 110 FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal]Crash Landed in Ødegaard Farm/ Lolland Island/Denmark


75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~54 of 63 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters -at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak
(~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~72.00% Claim Accuracy)

US FIGHTERS LOST
11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) Up to 7 ‘Fighters’ Shot Down by Fighters
NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action.
(Up to 7 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down by Fighters 63.64% Claim Accuracy)

2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return
(3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy)

52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return -Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211
29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37
29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16
29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77
29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120
29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39
29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185
29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121
29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36
29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23
29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139
29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19
29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4
29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95
29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99
29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13
29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93
29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 25 B-24s Actually Failed to Return -Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31
29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8
29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33
29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7
29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69
29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70
29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71
29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38
29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM


14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47)

4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%)
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207

2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38s Actually Failed to Return
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22
29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM

7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51s Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 2-4 P-51s Shot Down by Fighters?
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

88 TOTAL Victory Claims 76 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification)

JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich:
29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -107 Bombers returned home Damaged by Fighters)

Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments
B-17 4236 42-31353 91/322 0353 1Lt James F Purdy Jr. KIA ‘Queenie’ (146th) Flak 1142 -Wing Broke Off 3KIA/2MIA
B-17 4260 42-3513 92/326 Munson ?
B-17 4261 42-97319 92/326 Langfeldt ?
B-17 4467 42-31498 94?/331 Chias ?
B-17 4468 42-102520 94?/ 332 McClurkin ?
B-17G 4470 42-37988 95/ 336 Vilberg ?
B-17G 4469 42-31320 95/412 Leaser ‘I’ll Be Around’ -Flak
B-17 4471 42-3158 303/427 Fischer -Fighters
B-17G 4463 42-31241 303/427 2Lt Howard J. Bohle ‘Spirit of Wanett’ -Flak/ Bf 110 Maj. Walter Barte (23) -Crash Landed in Ødegaard Farm/ Lolland Island/Denmark
B-17 4240 42-31556 306/368 Lutz ?
B-17 4242 42-102448 384/545 Bouvier ?
B-17 4456 42-31773 385/548 Johnston -Fighters
B-17 4459 42-97559 385/549 Barney ?
B-17 4457 42-97078 385/550 Henry ?
B-17 4460 42-107045 385/550 Sexton ?
B-17 4453 42-31133 385/551 Garza ?
B-17 4454 42-31174 385/551 Hart ?
B-17 4458 42-97226 385/551 Huntington ?
B-17 4243 42-31393 388/560 Walker ? 102nd Mission
B-17 4244 42-37980 388/562 Covner ? ANOMALY -SURVIVES?
B-17 4245 42-102526 390/571 Rayburn ?
B-17G-5 4345 42-31226 401/613 2Lt D.E. Butterfoss Flak over Target -Crew MIA
B-17G-1 4344 42-31116 401/614 2Lt J.H. Singleton ‘Cawn't Miss’ (60th) -Flak
B-17G-20 4346 42-31521 401/615 Gould ‘Badland Bat’ -Flak? -Crew MIA?
B-17 4247 42-31144 447/708 Lt. Hayden T. Hughes ‘Rowdy Rebel/Miss America 9 KIA / 1 POW
B-17 4250 42-37866 447/708 Donahue ‘Bloated Body’ -Fighters -Crashed near Abbenrode/Germany. 2 KIA/8 POW
B-17 4251 42-37868 447/708 Blom ‘Due Back’ -Fighters 4 KIA/6 POW
B-17 4255 42-102479 447/708 Farrell ?
B-17 4254 42-102421 447/709 Dowler ?
B-17G-5-BO 4249 42-31217 447/710 2Lt Harold M. Paris ‘Rowdy Rebel/Solid Sender ’ -Fighters near Eggenstedt/Magdeburg /Germany -10 POW
B-17 4252 42-97135 447/710 March ?
B-17 4246 42-31124 447/711 Davidson -Fighters 1 KIA/9 POW
B-17 4248 42-31161 447/711 Peper ?
B-17 4253 42-97501 447/711 Johnson ?
B-17 4450 42-39981 452/728 Haakenson ‘Rugged but Right’ Flak/Straggler/Fighter 10 POW
B-17 4449 42-39920 452/729 Nelson ‘Karen B’ Flak -Feller in Ruulo/Holland - 1 KIA by Gestapo
Type MACRSerial # Group Comments
B-24 4464 42-100279 44/67 2Lt Keith Schuler ‘Tuffy’ Flak/Fighters/ Fw 190 e.V? Tilloy-Floriville/Germany 10 POW
B-24 4472 41-29471 44/68 2Lt G H Sweigert Fighters 1101 Exploded over Germany 7 KIA/3 POW
B-24 4494 41-28676 389/564 Higgins ?
B-24 5473 41-28784 389/564 Locke ?
B-24 4445 42-110062 392/576 2Lt Leo E. Ofenstein KIAShot Down by German Fighters 1100+ -Collided with ‘Doodle Bug’ -4KIA/6POW?
B-24 4476 42-100371 392/576 2Lt William T. Kamenitsa ‘Doodle Bug’ Collided with Bomber Shot Down by Fighters 1100+ 3 WIA?/10 POW
B-24 4462 41-28759 392/577 2Lt Fred C. ShereShot Down by Fighter 1330 3 KIA
B-24 4444 42-100100 392/578 2Lt Gerald E. RogersDouble Trouble’ -Shot Down by Fighters 2 KIA
B-24 4446 42-110105 392/578 2Lt Robert R. Bishop KIAShot Down by Fighters 10 KIA
B-24H 4461 42-7510 392/579 2Lt Bert W. Wyatt KIA ‘El Lobo’ (38th) 1345 Flak/Fighters/ Bf 109? e.V.? SW Dinklage/Germany 10 KIA
B-24 4485 42-100360 446/706 Jones ?
B-24 4486 42-7655 448/712 Clark ?
B-24 4489 41-29523 448/713 Turpin ?
B-24J 4491 42-99988 448/714 Ponge ?
B-24 4487 42-7683 448/714 Rogers ‘Sweet Sioux’
B-24 4490 42-52435 448/715 Cathey ?
B-24H 4488 41-29479 448/715 2Lt Orland T. Howard ‘Gypsy Queen’ Crash Landed 1422 Povlsker/Denmark -Hit By Flak
B-24 4493 42-50322 453/734 Tye ?
B-24 4940 42-52301 453/732 Davison ?
B-24H 4451 41-28718 458/752 Morris Landed at Rinkaby, Sweden after being attacked at 11:04 in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190. Returned 12 Jul 45
B-24 4448 41-29399 466/784 Cotner Crashed Holland -Some Crew Evade
B-24 4447 41-28754 466/787 1Lt Carl E. Hitchcock Crash-Landing Wilp-Achterhoek/Gelderland/Netherlands
B-24 4943 41-28749 467/790 Prokop 7 KIA?/ 3 POW
B-24 4944 42-52506 467/788 Moore ?
B-24 4942 41-28730 467/ Gavin ?
Type MACRSerial # Group Comments
P-51B-5 4541 43-6646 4/334 Lt. Peter Kennedy POW ‘QP-L’ Flak -Crashed near Fuechtorf/Germany?
P-51B-10 4671 42-106682 4/334 Lt. John L Barden POW ‘QP-B’ Flak -Crashed near Liebenrode
P-51 4422 43-6424 354/353 Capt. James Cannon (2.5) POW ‘-K’ Bf 109G Heinz Knoke (31) Groß Gleidingen/Germany
P-51B-5 4420 43-6918 354/355 2Lt Richard H.Hudson
POW Mechanical Failure -Crashed near Vlothe
P-51B-1 4434 43-12383 354/355 2Lt Paul W. Kallas KIA Fighters Crashed near Goedekkenrode/Holland?
P-51B-5 4547 43-6577 355/354 Capt Thomas F. Neal Jr. KIA ‘WR-J’ Crashed diving on 2 Fw-190s through clouds near Rathenow/Germany?
P-51B-10 4435 42-106485 363/380 2Lt Albert G. Johnon POW ‘Maggie's Drawers’ Mechanical Failure near Redon/France
P-51B-5 4431 43-6513 363/380 2Lt Norman D. Hersberger Out of Fuel Redon/France POW?
P-51B-5 4432 43-6804 363/380 1Lt Arthur W. Owen, Jr. Crashed near Lingen
P-51B-5 5130 43-6852 363/380 F/O Daniel G. Diya Crashed near Lingen
Type MACRSerial # Group Comments
P-38 4406 42-67447 364/384 Smith ?
P-38 4407 42-67438 364/384 Shaffer ?
P-38J 4408 42-67417 364/384 Lt Shorndin D McCloud ‘5Y-D’
P-38 4510 42-66985 51/ ?
P-38 4799 42-67007 51/ ?
Type MACRSerial # Group Comments
F-5 4224 42-13124 5/ ?

Partial List of Aircraft Lost over England/Category E Damage
Type Serial # Grp/Sq Pilot Comments
B-17 447/710 Lt. E. Henningson ‘Rowdy Rebel’ Ditched in Channel -9 Rescued?
B-24 42-7546492/577 2Lt Reed John W Reed IV KIA ‘Alfred II’ -Crippled By Fighters and Abandoned over England 1KIA
B-24 41-29427492/579 2Lt. Bernard Fryman KIA ‘Ready Willing and Able’ -Exploded 1522 before Landing due to Fighter? Damage 10 KIA
B-24H 41-29513 44/506 ‘Z-Bar’ -Flak -Fuel Leak -1505 Ditched 40 Miles East of Cromer -Crew Saved

Very Partial List of Damaged Aircraft
Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments
B-17 7030 91/322 Major Damage
B-17 7292 91/322 Major Damage
B-17 1387 91/322 Major Damage
B-17 116 91/323 Heavy Damage
Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments
B-24 41-29131 392/576 1Lt Edward F. Wittel ‘Spirit of '46 Flying Patch’ -Slight Damage From Fighters?
B-24 42-110097 392/576 1Lt George E. Jones Damaged by Fighters
B-24 42-7495 392/577 1Lt Floyd Slipp ‘Axis Grinder’ -Damaged by Fighters
B-24 41-29448 392/579 2Lt Walter S. Brunn ‘Carol Ann’ -Sligthly Damaged by Fighters
B-24 42-100261 392/579 2Lt Dewey L. Gann Jr.‘Sweet Chariot’ -Damaged by Friendly Test Cartridge -Aborted Mission
B-24 42-7472 392/579 2Lt Charles L. Bell ‘Bull Bat’ -Minor Damage

Very Partial List of Undamaged Aircraft
Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments
B-24 41-29433 392/576 2Lt Donald D. PrellUndamaged
B-24 42-110028 392/578 2Lt Roland E. Sabourin Undamaged?
B-24 42-52548 852 392/578 2Lt George L. Bridson ‘Jaw-Ja Boy’ -Undamaged?
Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments
B-17 304 91/323 Lt. Pryor
B-17 151 91/323 Lt. Sheriff
B-17 04091/323 Lt. Collier
B-17 90991/323 Lt. Hackleman
B-17 58091/323 Lt. Gorby
B-17 63691/323 Lt. Riser
B-17 07591/323 Lt. Gardner
B-17 542 91/323 Capt. Ranzoni
B-17 504 91/323 Lt. Bruce
B-17 27691/323 Lt. Thomas
B-17 06191/401 Capt. SamuelsonLt. Maziarz leading 323 Squadron

Very Partial List of Aborts
Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments
B-17 1982 91/322 1/Lt. Chas. T. Bell Turned Back early when intercom system went out.
B-17 1673 91/322 1/Lt Louis LaHood Turned Back just after crossing coast due to #1 & #2 Engine Trouble.

Of interest, I think I may have gained some ‘insight’ (for myself at least) into Category E Damage! I think I have Identified the 2 Liberators which ‘returned’ with Category E as the B-24s which were not furnished with MACR reports -one Lib was Abandoned in air to crash in England and the other Exploded in air above England with all 10 crew KIA! I had always assumed that Cat E referred to aircraft which had CRASH-LANDED and were too damaged to salvage. It seems that may be relegated to the realm of Category D, thus boosting the Claim Veracity of Luftwaffe Fighter Pilots even further, because in my view if a plane is shot up by a fighter and crash lands back at base -never to fly again- it has in fact been shot down (though there would be no way for the claimant to verify or indeed make a claim in the first place)!

A word of caution to researchers, in assessing MACR reports by date, as I discovered that the following 6 MACRs had nothing to do with Mission 327 to Berlin and in fact the P-47 reported was lost in the Pacific!

Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments
B-24J 12391 42-64354 449 717 'Peerless Clipper'
B-24 4614 41-29582 450
B-24 4837 41-29376 450 ‘Guardian Angel’
B-24 4855
4655 41-29269 450 Target TOULOUN/FRANCE
B-24H-10 4629 41-29265 454/ Flak off Touloun -Interned in Barcelona/Spain
Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments
P-47 5808 42-22687 58 717 5th AF Pacific


Mission 327 and the 392nd BG (B-24)
http://www.b24.net/stories/annette.htm
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  #14  
Old 25th January 2007, 11:41
sveahk sveahk is offline
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sveahk
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Two very small corrections:
Again according to "Making for Sweden..." the B-17G MACR 4463 "Spirit of Wanett" crashed into the sea north-west of Valse at Falster. Five of the crew baled out and four were taken prisoners, the co-pilot, 2/Lt Kerr escaped to Sweden. Four crew members were found dead, one is still MIA.
Also, the B-24H MACR 4488, "Gipsy Queen", crashed after the whole crew bailed out from the burning a/c, six escaped, three were taken prisoner and one KIA.

Greetings
Hans
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  #15  
Old 17th February 2007, 10:40
Rob Romero Rob Romero is offline
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Mission 327: 29 April 1944: Target -Friedrichstrasse Railroad Station Berlin

Assigned Take Off Combat Sorties Bomb Targets
Bombers 751 679 669 618
Fighters 814
TOTAL 1493

Duration of Raid over Berlin: 12 Combat Wings or ‘Boxes’ Bomb in Less than 38 Minutes
11:12 Local Time -Alarm Sounds with arrival of 452nd BG
11:50 Local Time -All Clear following departure of 379th BG

618 Bombers Drop 1271 Tons of Bombs: 2.057 Tons per Plane (4,113 Lbs. of Bombs per Plane)

Bombing in 6-10/10ths Cloud Cover
Results: Fair-Good
8th AF Estimates put Luftwaffe Defense of the Capital @ ~ 350 Fighters
Characterization of Opposition: “Fierce”

3rd Division (B-17) -Leading Division
45th Combat Wing (96BG / 452BG / 388BG)
4A Combat Wing (385BG / 447BG)
13th Combat Wing (390BG / 95BG)
4B Combat Wing (100BG / 4BG)
236 Assigned -218 Combat Sorties -196 Targets Bomb (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets)
28 B-17s Lost & 161 Damaged
4 KIA 20 WIA & 260 MIA

1st Division (B-17)
1st Combat Wing (91BG / 381BG / 398BG)
40th Combat Wing (305BG / 92BG / 306BG)
41st Combat Wing (303BG / 379BG / 384BG)
94th Combat Wing (401BG / 457BG / 351BG)
263 Assigned -228 Combat Sorties -210 B-17s Bomb Berlin
10 B-17s Lost & 150 Damaged
1 KIA 7 WIA & 100 MIA.

94th BG Participated –Division/Combat Wing Unknown

2nd Division (B-24) Ran into Scattered Groups of 1st Division over Target Area
14th Combat Wing (44BG / 392BG)
2nd Combat Wing (389BG / 453BG / 445BG)
96th Combat Wing (458BG / 467BG / 466BG / 467BG)
20th Combat Wing (93BG / 446BG / 448BG)
252 Assigned -233 Combat Sorties -212 B-17s Bomb Berlin
25 B-24s Lost, 2 Damaged Beyond Repair & 121 Damaged
13 KIA 11 WIA & 246 MIA


Fighter Escort
117 P-38s, 463 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-47s & 234 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-51s
3 P-38s & 10 P-51s Lost 1 P-47 Damaged Beyond Repair
7 P-38s, 16 P-47s & 7 P-51s Damaged
1 WIA & 12 MIA

Combat Sorties
Division Assigned Sortie Bomb Target
3rd Division (B-17) 236 218 196 (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets)
1st Division (B-17) 263 228 210
B-17s 499 446 406
2nd Division (B-24) 252 233 212 -Trailing Division
TOTAL 751 679 618

Mission 327 Casualties
Bomber Casualties
4 KIA 20 WIA 260 MIA (3rd Division) -Leading Division
1 KIA 7 WIA 100 MIA (1st Division)
13 KIA 11 WIA 246 MIA (2nd Division) -Trailing Division
18 KIA 38 WIA 606 MIA
Fighter Casualties
1 WIA 12 MIA
Total Casualties
18 KIA 39 WIA 618 MIA

Mission 327 Losses
Bombers Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged
3rd Division 28 B-17s 161 B-17s 189 B-17s
1st Division 10 B-17s 1 B-17 150 B-17s 161 B-17s
446 B-17s 38 B-17s 1 B-17 311 B-17s 350 B-17s
233 B-24s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s 148 B-24s
679 Bombers 63 Bombers 3 Bombers 432 Bombers 498 Bombers

63 Bombers Fail to Return
-Apparently 47 Bombers were lost to Lufwaffe fighters
-At least 10 Bombers were lost to Flak
-6 Bombers lost to ???

432 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak -Apparently 107 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak)
3 Category E Damage (Bombers Lost BEFORE Landing)
? Category D Damage
? Category C Damage
? Category B Damage
? Category A Damage

Fighters Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged
463 P-47s 1 P-47 16 P-47s 17 P-47s
234 P-51s 10 P-51s 7 P-51s 17 P-51s
117 P-38s 3 P-38s 7 P-38s 10 P-38s
814 Fighters 13 Lost 1 Beyond Repair 30 Damaged 44 Lost /Damaged

31 Fighters Damaged
1 Category E Damage P-47
? Category D Damage
? Category C Damage
? Category B Damage
? Category A Damage

TOTAL Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged
679 Bombers 63 Bombers 3 Bombers 432 Bombers 498 Bombers
814 Fighters 13 Fighters 1 P-47 30 Fighters 44 Fighters
1493 Sorties 76 Lost 4 Beyond Repair 462 Damaged 542 Lost /Damaged

USAAF Combat Claims
TOTAL Fighters Bombers
Shot Down 95 22 73
Probable 33
Damaged 48

21-28 Luftwaffe Fighters are Lost


1) Bf 109G-1 (Wrk. No.?) Heinz Knoke (31) There is the interesting story from Knoke’s book “I Flew For the Führer” that on this day, Knoke was shot down by a ‘P-47’ (he officially claimed a P-51) but as his tormentor overshot, Knoke pulled his flaming mount towards the enemy and shot him down in turn! The pilots parachuted and when Knoke awoke from unconsiousness to find the American beside him, Knoke told his ‘POW’ that he was his 26th victim (Sic 25th). The American, since identified as Capt. James Cannon (354FG/353FS P-51) allegedly countered that Knocke was his 17th. It has been suggested that actually Cannon mentioned that he had shot down a Do 217 and that Knocke misunderstood this, or else the American was not about to be shown up by the pilot he had shot down.

Secondary/Diversionary Missions
Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss.


14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss.

TACTICAL OPERATIONS (9th Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area.

I counted 83 Luftwaffe Victory claims, 5 Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and 26 Herausabschüß Claims (HSS/Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) for a total of 88 Kills 114 Victory Claims by Luftwaffe from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and -surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM symposium in 2002).
A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 88 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down -a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 88 aircraft shot down and perhaps 61-67 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (69.32%-78.41% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 12 of these 88 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) - suggesting that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive rubber stamp treatment in assesing their claims.

83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation)
5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples)
88 Total Victory Claims
+
26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled)
114 Total Claims

Luftwaffe Victories Linked to Individual Pilots

Pilot Aircraft ClaimUnit Type Serial # Grp/Sqn Pilot Time Location
Oblt. Heinz Knoke Bf 109G-1 (25 of 31) 5/JG11 P-51 43-6424 354/353 Capt. James Cannon (2.5) POW1150-1200 Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. Klein Gleidingen/Groß Gleidingen
Maj. Walter Barte Bf-110G? (?? of 23) Stab III/NJG3 B-17G 42-31241 303/427 2Lt Howard J. Bohle 13:28 ‘Spirit of Wanett’ -Flak/Bf 110 FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal]Crash Landed in Ødegaard Farm/ Lolland Island/Denmark

75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~53 of 63 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters -at least 10 Bombers lost to Flak
(~53 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~70.67% Claim Accuracy)

US FIGHTERS LOST
11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) Up to 7 ‘Fighters’ Shot Down by Luft Fighters
NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action.
(Up to 7 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down by Fighters 63.64% Claim Accuracy)

2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return
(3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy)

52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return -Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211
29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37
29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. –
29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16
29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77
29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120
29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39
29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185
29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121
29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36
29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23
29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139
29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19
29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1
29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4
29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95
29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99
29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13
29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93
29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119
29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26
29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM

23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 25 B-24s Actually Failed to Return -Some were lost to Flak
29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31
29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8
29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26
29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30
29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33
29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18
29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27
29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7
29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69
29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29
29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70
29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71
29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38
29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM


14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47)

4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%)
29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68
29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86
29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207

2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38s Actually Failed to Return
29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22
29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM

7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51s Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 2-4 P-51s Shot Down by Fighters?
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28
29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207
29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302
29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
88 TOTAL Victory Claims 76 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification)

JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich:
29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM
29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356
26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -107 Bombers returned home Damaged by Fighters)


Type MACRSerial No. Grp/Sqd AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments
B-17 4236 42-31353 91/322 0353 1Lt James F Purdy Jr. KIA Queenie (146th) AA 1142 Wing Broke Off 3KIA/2MIA
B-17 4260 42-3513 92/326 513 Lt Russell M Munson ?
B-17 4261 42-97319 92/326 319 Lt John B Langfeldt ?
B-17 4467 42-31498 94/331 Chias ?
B-17 4468 42-102520 94/332 McClurkin ?
B-17G 4470 42-37988 95/336 Vilberg ?
B-17G 4469 42-31320 95/412 LeaserIll Be Around AA -Crashed near Hamstede/Germany 10POW
B-17F 4471 42-3158 303/427 158 CR-L 2Lt James H Fischer POW Max Ftrs over Target 8KIA/2POW Spare -Last 303 B-17F Lost
B-17G 4463 42-31241 303/427 241 CR-S
2Lt Howard J Bohle Spirit of Wanette AA/Bf 110 Maj. Walter Barte (23) -Crash Landed in Sea NW of Valse at Falster/Lolland Island/Denmark 5KIA/4POW/1EVD
B-17 4240 42-31556 306/368 Lutz ?
B-17-G-50 4242 42-102448 384/545 JD*P Lt. Bouvier ?
B-17 4456 42-31773 385/548 GX-M Johnston Bf-109? Crashed near Laatzen/Gleidingen, Germany. 2 KIA (1 Murdered)8 POW
B-17 4459 42-97559 385/549 Barney Bf-109?
B-17 4457 42-97078 385/550 Henry Bf-109?
B-17 4460 42-107045 385/550 Sexton Bf-109?
B-17 4453 42-31133 385/551 Garza Bf-109?
B-17 4454 42-31174 385/551 Hart Bf-109?
B-17 4458 42-97226 385/551 Huntington Bf-109?
B-17 4243 42-31393 388/560 D E Walker (102nd Mission) AA Parsau/France
B-17 4244 42-37980 388/562 J O Coyner Fighters
B-17G 4245 42-102526 390/571 N Rayburn Severe Damage, one engine smoking, dove into clouds. Crashed at Geitsche/Germany All POW
B-17G-5 4345 42-31226 401/613 2Lt D.E. Butterfoss AA over Target -Crew MIA
B-17G-1 4344 42-31116 401/614 IW-O 2Lt J.H. Singleton Cawnt Miss (60)AA 5KIA/5POW
B-17G-20 4346 42-31521 401/615 Gould Badland Bat AA? -Crew MIA?
B-17 4247 42-31144 447/708 Lt Hayden T Hughes Rowdy Rebel
Miss AmericaFtrs en route Destedt/Germany 9KIA/1POW
B-17 4250 42-37866 447/708 Donahue Bloated Body Ftrs -Crashed near Abbenrode/Germany. 2 KIA/8 POW
B-17 4251 42-37868 447/708 Blom Due Back Ftrs 4 KIA/6 POW
B-17 4255 42-102479 447/708 Farrell ?
B-17 4254 42-102421 447/709 Dowler ?
B-17G-5-BO 4249 42-31217 447/710 IJ-G 2Lt Harold M Paris Rowdy Rebel
Solid SenderFtrs near Eggenstedt/Magdeburg /Germany -10 POW
B-17 4252 42-97135 447/710 March ?
B-17 4246 42-31124 447/711 Davidson Ftrs 1 KIA/9 POW
B-17G 4248 42-31161 447/711 Peper Spare Parts ?
B-17 4253 42-97501 447/711 Johnson ?
B-17 4450 42-39981 452/728 Haakenson Rugged but Right AA/Straggler/Ftr 10 POW
B-17 4449 42-39920 452/729 Nelson Karen B AA -Feller in Ruulo/Holland - 1KIA by Gestapo
Type MACRSerial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments
B-24 4464 42-100279 44/67 2Lt Keith Schuler Tuffy AA/Ftrs/ Fw 190 e.V? Tilloy-Floriville/Germany 10 POW
B-24 4472 41-29471 44/68 2Lt G H Sweigert Ftrs 1101 Exploded over Germany 7 KIA/3 POW
B-24 4494 41-28676 389/564 Higgins ?
B-24 5473 41-28784 389/564 Locke ?
B-24 4445 42-110062 392/576 2Lt Leo E. Ofenstein KIA Shot Down by German Ftrs 1100+ -Collided with Doodle Bug -4KIA/6POW?
B-24 4476 42-100371 392/576 2Lt William T. Kamenitsa Doodle Bug Collided with Bomber Shot Down by Ftrs 1100+ 3 WIA?/10 POW
B-24 4462 41-28759 392/577 2Lt Fred C. Shere Shot Down by Ftr 1330 3 KIA
B-24 4444 42-100100 392/578 2Lt Gerald E. RogersDouble Trouble Shot Down by Ftrs 2 KIA
B-24 4446 42-110105 392/578 2Lt Robert R. Bishop KIA Shot Down by Ftrs 10 KIA
B-24H 4461 42-7510 392/579 2Lt Bert W. Wyatt KIA El Lobo (38th) 1345 AA/Ftrs/ Bf 109? e.V.? SW Dinklage/Germany 10 KIA
B-24 4485 42-100360 446/706 Jones Luck n’ Stuff Mechanical-AA?/Bf-109s 3KIA/7POW
B-24 4486 42-7655 448/712 Clark ?
B-24 4489 41-29523 448/713 Turpin ?
B-24J 4491 42-99988 448/714 Ponge ?
B-24 4487 42-7683 448/714 Rogers Sweet Sioux ?
B-24 4490 42-52435 448/715 Cathey ?
B-24H 4488 41-29479 448/715 2Lt Orland T. Howard Gypsy Queen AA Crash Landed 1422 Povlsker/Denmark 1KIA/3POW/6EVD
B-24 4493 42-50322 453/734 Tye ?
B-24 4940 42-52301 453/732 Davison ?
B-24H 4451 41-28718 458/752 Morris Landed Rinkaby/Sweden after being attacked 11:04 near Celie by FW 190. Returned 12 Jul 45
B-24 4448 41-29399 466/784 Cotner Crashed Holland -Some Crew Evade
B-24 4447 41-28754 466/787 1Lt Carl E. Hitchcock Crash-Landing Wilp-Achterhoek/Gelderland/Netherlands
B-24H-15-FO 4944 42-52506 467/788 1Lt Bill F Moore EXE AA after drop -bailed out Holland Maj R Salzarulo 788CO & 5POW/5EVD -Pilot executed Gestapo
B-24H-10-DT 4943 41-28749 467/790 1Lt Frank P Prokop Ftrs Hannover 7 KIA/ 3 POW
B-24H-10-DT 4942 41-28730 467/790 1Lt John P Gavin POW Blonde Bomber AA Berlin 4KIA/6POW
Type MACRSerial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments
P-51B-5 4541 43-6646 4/334 QP-L AA Lt. Peter Kennedy POW Crashed near Fuechtorf/Germany?
P-51B-10 4671 42-106682 4/334 QP-B AA Lt. John L Barden POW Crashed near Liebenrode
P-51 4422 43-6424 354/353 -K Capt. James Cannon (2.5) POW Bf 109G-1 Heinz Knoke (31) Groß Gleidingen/Germany
P-51B-5 4420 43-6918 354/355 2Lt Richard H.Hudson
POW Mechanical Failure -Crashed near Vlothe
P-51B-1 4434 43-12383 354/355 2Lt Paul W. Kallas KIA Ftrs Crashed near Goedekkenrode/Holland?
P-51B-5 4547 43-6577 355/354 WR-J Capt Thomas F. Neal Jr. KIA Crashed diving on 2 Fw-190s through clouds near Rathenow/Germany?
P-51B-10 4435 42-106485 363/380 2Lt Albert G. Johnon POW Maggies Drawers Mechanical Failure near Redon/France
P-51B-5 4431 43-6513 363/380 2Lt Norman D. Hersberger Out of Fuel Redon/France POW?
P-51B-5 4432 43-6804 363/380 1Lt Arthur W. Owen, Jr. Crashed near Lingen
P-51B-5 5130 43-6852 363/380 F/O Daniel G. Diya Crashed near Lingen
Type MACRSerial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments
P-38J 4406 42-67447 364/384 5Y- Lt Eugene L Smith POW ?
P-38J 4407 42-67438 364/384 5Y-I Lt Kenneth M Shaffer POW ?
P-38J 4408 42-67417 364/384 5Y-D Lt Shorndin D McCloud ?
Type MACRSerial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments
F-5 4224 42-13124 5/ ?

Partial List of Aircraft Lost over England/Category E Damage (14 Total?)
Type Serial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments
B-17G 42-31519 447/709 IE-O Flemming Ditched in Channel SAME AS below?
B-17 447/710 Lt. E. Henningson Rowdy Rebel Ditched in Channel -9 Rescued?
B-17 42-31784 452/729 Suckow Section Eight AA?/Ftr? -Ditched in the North Sea. 10 RTD
Type Serial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments
B-24 389/564 Lt. Locke AA/Fighters Ditched in the English Channel5KIA/1WIA
B-24H 41-29513 44/506 Hruby Z-Bar AA -Fuel Leak -1505 Ditched 40 Miles East of Cromer -Crew Saved
B-24 42-7546492/577 2Lt Reed John W Reed IV KIA Alfred II Bf-109s -Abandoned Beckenville/England 1KIA
B-24 41-29427492/579 2Lt. Bernard Fryman KIA Ready Willing and Able Exploded 1522 before Landing due to Fighter? Damage 10 KIA

Very Partial List of Damaged Aircraft
Type Serial # AC# Grp/
Sqdrn Pilot Plane Name Comments
B-17 7030 91/322 Major Damage
B-17 7292 91/322 Major Damage
B-17 1387 91/322 Major Damage
B-17 116 91/323 Heavy Damage
B-17G 42-31405405 303/359 2Lt Ernest L. Roth Wallaroo MKIIAA Co-Pilot2Lt Homer E Raker KIA -Silver Star for adjusting engines before dying.
B-17 42-31242 388/563 W J Brunk Patty Jo Severe Damage
Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments
B-24 41-29131 392/576 1Lt Edward F. Wittel Spirit of 46 Flying Patch Slight Damage by Ftrs?
B-24 42-110097 392/576 1Lt George E. Jones Damaged by Ftrs
B-24 42-7495 392/577 1Lt Floyd Slipp Axis Grinder Damaged by Ftrs
B-24 41-29448 392/579 2Lt Walter S. Brunn Carol Ann Slight Damage by Ftrs
B-24 42-100261 392/579 2Lt Dewey L. Gann Jr. Sweet Chariot Damaged by Friendly Test Cartridge -Aborted
B-24 42-7472 392/579 2Lt Charles L. Bell Bull Bat Minor Damage

Very Partial List of Aborts
Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments
B-17 1982 91/322 1Lt Chas. T. Bell Turned Back early when intercom system went out.
B-17 1673 91/322 1Lt Louis LaHood Turned Back just after crossing coast due to #1 & #2 Engine Trouble.

Very Partial List of Undamaged Aircraft
Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments
B-24 41-29433 392/576 2Lt Donald D. PrellUndamaged
B-24 42-110028 392/578 2Lt Roland E. Sabourin Undamaged?
B-24 42-52548 852 392/578 2Lt George L. Bridson ‘Jaw-Ja Boy’ -Undamaged?
Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments
B-17 304 91/323 Lt. Pryor
B-17 151 91/323 Lt. Sheriff
B-17 04091/323 Lt. Collier
B-17 90991/323 Lt. Hackleman
B-17 58091/323 Lt. Gorby
B-17 63691/323 Lt. Riser
B-17 07591/323 Lt. Gardner
B-17 542 91/323 Capt. Ranzoni
B-17 504 91/323 Lt. Bruce
B-17 27691/323 Lt. Thomas
B-17 06191/401 Capt. SamuelsonLt. Maziarz leading 323 Squadron


Of interest, I think I may have gained some ‘insight’ (for myself at least) into Category E Damage! I think I have Identified the 2 Liberators which ‘returned’ with Category E as the B-24s which were not furnished with MACR reports -one Lib was Abandoned in air to crash in England and the other Exploded in air above England with all 10 crew KIA! I had always assumed that Cat E referred to aircraft which had CRASH-LANDED and were too damaged to salvage. It seems that may be relegated to the realm of Category D, thus boosting the Claim Veracity of Luftwaffe Fighter Pilots even further, because in my view if a plane is shot up by a fighter and crash lands back at base -never to fly again- it has in fact been shot down (though there would be no way for the claimant to verify or indeed make a claim in the first place)!

A word of caution to researchers, in assessing MACR reports by date, as I discovered that the following 8 MACRs had nothing to do with Mission 327 to Berlin and in fact the P-47 reported was lost in the Pacific and the P-38s in the CBI!

Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments
B-24J 12391 42-64354 449 717 'Peerless Clipper'
B-24 4614 41-29582 450
B-24 4837 41-29376 450 ‘Guardian Angel’
B-24 4855
4655 41-29269 450 Target TOULON/FRANCE
B-24H-10 4629 41-29265 454/ AA off Toulon -Interned in Barcelona/Spain
Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments
P-47 5808 42-22687 58 717 5th AF Pacific
Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments
P-38 4510 42-66985 51/ ?
P-38 4799 42-67007 51/

Mission 327 and the 392nd BG (B-24)
http://www.b24.net/stories/annette.htm
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  #16  
Old 17th February 2007, 16:35
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Rob:

It's occurred to me that we still haven't gotten the factors of why the LW did so well on this raid this late in the war; what the factors were that allowed them to give the 8thAF a bit of a bloody nose & STILL get away without high casualties;

NickM
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  #17  
Old 17th February 2007, 17:00
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Nick - right up to the end of the war, the Luftwaffe was able to deal severe blows to the bombers when skillfully directed by the controllers to an area/gap in fighter coverage - and escape without being mauled if they only made, perhaps two passes.

The 29th April was particularly significant because the B-24 wings that were clobbered were very far off course and fighters were not able to provide cover at all!

Other battles such as 7 July and 27 September and 26 November, they dealt heavy blows but the fighter coverage was close enough that the Germans were not able to escape..

I know I am a preacher talking to the converted about this point so forgive me if I seem pedantic about 'local superiority' and the lethal consequences when Sturmbocks were able to make passes with 30mm cannon.

Bill

Rob - I noted w/interest that Oblt Heinz Seidl 3/JG302 seemed to claim Neal (as referenced to the WR-J in the claim). I have a report that an Fw 190 and the P-51 WR-J both crashed very close together which would support the claim that Neal went in chasing one of the 190's near Rathenow. His wingman pulled up as they started through an undercast and barely escaped the same fate.

Do you have access to the German claim documentation so I can better understand the circumstances?
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  #18  
Old 17th February 2007, 20:03
Rob Romero Rob Romero is offline
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

NOTE THERE ARE UNCORRECTED ERRORS IN THE TABLES ABOVE THAT WILL AWAIT THE NEXT MAJOR REVISION!!!

Nick,
I think the online resource I included goes a good way to explain what happened. First it was a deep penetration raid againt Nazism’s capital, so the Jagdwaffe was highly motivated and had a long time to organize and probe for weaknesses. Secondly the radars on the two lead Pathfinder B-17s were not functioning properly (one failed completely) and so GIVEN THE OVERCAST the bomber stream drifted well south of the assigned escort corridors.



Drgondog,
sorry, I'M THROUGH WITH ARCHIVAL RESEARCH, all my work is online these days –in fact I to most of that info from a post someone –perhaps you- made. Are you saying Seidly shot down Neal, or that he just dove into the ground?
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Old 18th February 2007, 00:57
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Rob - what I believe is that 'Jeeter' Neal was chasing two Fw 190's in a dive, his wingman pulled out as they went into cloudbank (Fritts Statement in MACR) and when he finally recovered from the dive he (Fritts) was just off the deck and saw no a/c in sight before climbing back out - leading one to conclude that Neal was not shot down but crashed chasing the Fw 190..misjudging the altitude.

I don't think it unreasonable, however for Seidl to make the claim, just curious with regard to how he reported the claim?

Regards,

Bill
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  #20  
Old 18th February 2007, 10:29
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Ruy Horta Ruy Horta is offline
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Romero View Post
NOTE THERE ARE UNCORRECTED ERRORS IN THE TABLES ABOVE THAT WILL AWAIT THE NEXT MAJOR REVISION!!!
If I may make a suggestion.

Instead of re-posting the edited material as a new post, upload it as a word document instead. Each time you have a new version, you remove the old doc-file and upload the amended one. You could even keep up a revision note.

Basic fact is that people tend to read the first post and than join the thread, skipping much of what is in between, this means your edits may be ignored alltogether.
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