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Roger Gaemperle
29th May 2009, 11:38
Hello,

Does anybody know which unit had the code 9H+..? I checked some www-sources but they didn't mention 9H.

Thanks,
Roger

Nick Beale
29th May 2009, 14:35
I'd need to check but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in ULTRA for Nahauklärungsstaffel Kroatien in May 1944.

Larry deZeng
29th May 2009, 15:07
Hello,
Does anybody know which unit had the code 9H+..? I checked some www-sources but they didn't mention 9H.
Thanks,
Roger


Nick is correct. Nahaufklärungsstaffel Kroatien used (9H+ ) on its Hs 126s and Do 17s from its formation in March 1943 to May 1945.

Roger Gaemperle
29th May 2009, 15:11
Hello Nick and Larry,

Thanks a lot! Interesting. Do you know if they also had Ju 88 on strength?

I have a photo of a Ju 88 9H+SL with a yellow stripe around the rear fuselage.

Cheers,
Roger

Roger Gaemperle
29th May 2009, 15:13
PS: I just checked http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/bkroatien.html and from Sept 44 some Ju 88 C-6 are mentioned.

Are any photos of their Ju 88 known? Is there a good source of information about the history of this unit?

Cheers,
Roger

Larry deZeng
29th May 2009, 16:28
Hi Roger,

I have a history of it compiled by me from all available sources and I can try and answer any questions you might have. Unfortunately, I'm an operations guy and not a hardware guy. So if you have detailed questions about the Staffel's aircraft other that it's 1943 losses and its beständigen Meldungen as given on the Michael Holm web site, then I probably can't answer those.

More specifically, there is no known published or manuscript history of the Staffel, and I have no photos of it. The Bundesarchiv in Koblenz might have some, though.

Roger Gaemperle
30th May 2009, 17:56
Hi Larry,

Do you have any information about a Ju 88 9H+SL? Perhaps it appears in some log book. Judging from the name this unit only had one Staffel. If so, I guess a code like 9H+SL wouldn't make much sense (L was the Staffel letter). Or were there other aircraft of this unit with similar tactical markings?

Do you know where the unit was based during the last months of the war?

Cheers,
Roger

Larry deZeng
30th May 2009, 18:54
Roger -

NASt. Kroatien, code (9H+ ), was a single Staffel that fluctuated between 9 and 17 aircraft in all. It had a total of 8 Gen.Qu. loss report entries between 19 May 1943 and 12 November 1943, plus at least one for 1945, and they are all for Hs 126s, Do 17Zs and Fi 156s. I don’t have any loss information for 1944, of course. In October 1944, a single Bf 109 was acquired and tests were carried out on a Ju 87. The documents and personal correspondence with a Staffel member who served with it for nearly its entire existence make no mention of a Ju 88 ever being in the hands of the Staffel.

The Staffel was based at Zagreb-Lučko during its entire existence, although it operated from other airfields in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina as needed, and here are the historical entries for its last three months:

"Reconnaissance operations from December 1944 to April 1945 were limited to only a few sorties a day as the weather allowed, mainly due to the critical fuel situation.
19 February 1945: Hs 126B-l flipped over on landing at Zagreb-Lučko, 60%.
14 March 1945: Staffel ordered disbanded, but this either cancelled or delayed.
9 April 1945: reported 17(16) Bf 109Gs and Hs 126s on strength under 17. Fliegerdivision.
3 May 1945: still at Zagreb-Lučko and the general withdrawal north to Austria from Zagreb area was carried out on 7 May. Just prior to the evacuation of Zagreb, all remaining aircraft belonging to the Staffel were ordered handed over to Croatian officers and then the personnel of NASt. Kroatien (all German Luftwaffe), both flying and non-flying, headed north by truck and surrendered to Allied forces at Mauerkirchen/ Austria a few days later."

Hope that helps a bit!

Larry

Roger Gaemperle
1st June 2009, 22:16
Hi Larry,

Thanks a lot for the information. Perhaps there were only so few Ju 88 (based on the list at www.ww2.dk (http://www.ww2.dk) until end of 1944) that the Staffel members didn't explicitely mention the Ju 88 ?

Or of course, based on your information it seems more and more probable that I read the unit code wrongly and that instead it was 8H for (F)33. Since (F)33 had 4 Staffeln the code 8H+SL would make more sense than 9H+SL. 1. and 3. Staffel had Ju 88 on strengh (at least until end of 1944 according to ww2.dk). 3. Staffel had the Staffel letter 'L'. So 8H+SL would fit perfectly.

3./(F)33 operated in Greece and Hungary under Luftflotte 4 before it went back to Germany just before the end of the war. So, the yellow fuselage band would make sense as well.

Regards
Roger

Larry deZeng
2nd June 2009, 00:17
As you can see from the following, 3.(F)/33 was at Zagreb-Pleso from mid-November 1944 to mid-January 1945. Zagreb-Pleso is just a stone's throw from Zagreb-Lucko where NASt. Kroatien was based at the same time.

3.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 33
Code: (8H + )
Last 7 months of entries:
10.10.44: transferred from Salonika-Sedes to Skopje/Macedonia on or about this date; still under FAGr. 4, the Staffel had 9(5) Ju 88s and Ju l88s, the former being the high-altitude T-l and T-3 variants.
22.10.44: Ju l88 D-2 (8H+AL) crashed in Greece due to engine failure, or possibly shot down by a RAF Beaufighter, while on a long-range day reconnaissance flight to check shipping between Greece and Crete and then along the approaches to the Dardanelles on the return leg, 100%, 3 KIA and 2 captured.
2.11.44: now at Szombathely/W Hungary with a Kette detached at Skopje and still under FAGr. 4.
29.11.44: now at Zagreb-Pleso/Croatia with 6(2) Ju 88s and Ju l88s under Fliegerführer Nordbalkan.
1.12.44: Staffel reported 4 x Ju 188 D-2 and 2 x Ju 188 F-1 on strength.
10.1.45: Zagreb-Pleso with 13(10) Ju 88s and Ju l88s under FAGr. 4.
16.1.45: transferred from Zagreb-Pleso to Szombathely.
20.2.45: Ju 188 D-2 damaged landing at Fp. Szombathe1y, 10%.
26.3.45: Szombathe1y under FAGr. 4.
9.4.45: transferred to Kirchham/c.30 km SSW of Wels in Austria with 10(10) Ju 88s and Ju 188s.
10.4.45: ordered disbanded this date by OKL.
3.5.45: Kirchham in the process of being disbanded under FAGr. 4.

Larry

Roger Gaemperle
5th July 2009, 10:22
Hi Larry,

Thanks for this detailed information about 3./(F)33. Do you possibly have the same kind of information for 1./(F)33 as well?

I have a photo of a 1./(F)33 ME 410 that may have yellow lower engine cowlings. However, as far as I know 1./(F)33 operated only in the west and I don't know if yellow cowlings would make sense. What do you think?

Regards
Roger

Andreas Brekken
5th July 2009, 10:58
Hi.

The unit sustained 26 aircraft damaged or destroyed during 1944. I can give a list of numbers and dates if you are interested?

Regards,
Andreas B

Roger Gaemperle
5th July 2009, 11:42
Hi Andreas,

Yes, that would be very interesting! I'll send you my e-mail address via PM.

Cheers,
Roger

Larry deZeng
5th July 2009, 15:16
Hi Larry,
Thanks for this detailed information about 3./(F)33. Do you possibly have the same kind of information for 1./(F)33 as well?
I have a photo of a 1./(F)33 ME 410 that may have yellow lower engine cowlings. However, as far as I know 1./(F)33 operated only in the west and I don't know if yellow cowlings would make sense. What do you think?
Regards
Roger

Yes, I do Roger, but what time frame are you interested in?

As for the yellow cowlings, I can't really say except that it did operate on the central sector of the Eastern Front from June 1941 to February 1942. If the photo is from a later period, it may have been an aircraft seconded from another Staffel. The Luftwaffe practice of swapping aircraft from one unit to another was quite routine.

Larry

Roger Gaemperle
6th July 2009, 08:43
Hi Larry,

Mainly for the fall 1944 to Mai 1945 period.

The photo of the Me 410 was taken at the end of the war but I don't know for how long the Me 410 has been with 1./(F)33. Since 1./(F)33 already had Me 410s in summer 1944 when they were in France it could well be that it was on strenght of 1./(F)33 since summer 1944.

But I am not 100% sure about the yellow cowlings as it is a black and white photo. I could well be that I see something which is actually not there.

Cheers,
Roger

Larry deZeng
6th July 2009, 14:45
1.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 33 (mid-1944 to May 1945)

3.7.44: operating from St.-Martin, Ju 88 T-l (8H+ZH) flew a high-altitude recce of Oran harbor on the Algerian coast; developed engine trouble over the target. lost altitude, and then made a forced landing after encountering two Spitfires. In addition to Ju 88 T-ls, the Staffel also had some Me 410s at this time.
11.7.44: after shadowing an east-bound Allied convoy for several days as it steamed across the western Mediterranean, the Staffel laid a path of “Lux” radio navigation buoys during the night of 11/12 July to guide a torpedo attack on the convoy by 24 x Ju 88 A-4s from I. and III./KG 77.
21.8.44: 7 days after the Allied invasion of South France, aircraft and crews ordered to transfer from St.-Martin to Bergamo-South in North Italy and the rest of the Staffel to Landsberg/Lech in South Germany.

Germany. (Sep 44 - May 45)
1.9.44: Staffel reported 4 x Ju 88 S-3, 3 x Ju 188 D-2, 3 x Ju 188 F-1 and 1 x Me 410 A-1 on strength. These were all turned in during September and the beginning of October.
10.44 – 2.45: undergoing conversion to the Arado Ar 234 jet at Berg near Magdeburg.
17.2.45: Ar 234 B-2 damaged landing at Berg during a training flight, 50%, Oblt. Hans Schmidt killed.
2.45: declared operational at the end of February and cleared for Ar 234 reconnaissance operations over the British Isles from Denmark and Stavanger-Sola in Norway.
1.3.45: transferred from Berg to Wittmundhafen/N Germany and Grove/Denmark to commence Ar 234 operations over the U.K.
5.3.45: at Wittmundhafen - assigned to Kommandierender General der deutschen Luftwaffe in Dänemark effective this date and responsible for reconnaissance of southeast England as far as London, with special emphasis on harbors and convoy arrivals and departures.
2.4.45: Wittmundhafen.
6.4.45: ordered to transfer to Kaltenkirchen/28 km N of Hamburg for assignment to FAGr. l.
9.4.45: transferred to Schleswig-Land.
10.4.45: had the honor of flying the Luftwaffe's last mission over England - a Ar 234 photo recce sortie over the Orkneys and North Scotland from Stavanger-Sola.
13.4.45: Schleswig-Land - Staffel reported that it had ceased all recce operations over the North Sea owing to the fuel situation.
17.4.45: still at Schleswig-Land.
5.5.45: transferred to Grove/Denmark.
8.5.45: German forces surrendered. Two Ar 234s belonging to 1.(F)/33 were captured at Grove this date, suggesting that this may have been all it had remaining that were serviceable.


Seems to have had just one 410 on strength.

Larry