Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Once again my thanks, Laurent.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Brian,

You very probably have the story of the battle between US PT boats and aircraft near Green Islands on 29 April 1944.

The full list of casualties (killed and wounded) can be found here:
http://www.seabees93.net/GI%20RIP.htm

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks Laurent

I didn't have the list of casualties - much appreciated.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

I've been off this site for a long time and haven't tried to read all the posts on this thread--that would be a book which we can all hope Brian will publish! There was an incident over the Indochina coast Jan 12 '45 when Marine Corsairs off the Essex shot down a 14th AF B-24. I've seen the file in USMC archives, containing a still photo from the F4U gun camera. It's somewhat blurry but clearly shows no star/bar on the wings and apparently none on the fuselage. The CAP was vectored to investigate the bogey, which opened fire. The marines ID'd it as a Liberator but because it shot at them, they figured it was Japanese-flown. Presumably it was from the 308th BG, the only Lib unit I know of in 14th AF.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

This B-24 was 42-73249 of 308th BG/374th BS. MACR 11163.
There's a story about it from a relative of one of the crew on this website:
http://www.usaaf-in-cbi.com/308th_web/mail_308.htm

Scroll down to the post by Tom Osbore, dated 30-Oct-98.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Brian, I know you have already this case, a B-29 shot down by a Beaufighter on 20 December 1944, but maybe this will give you some new details:
http://www.40thbombgroup.org/memories/Memories57.pdf

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

British side of this B-29 shoot down by a Beaufighter is described on p.101 of this link: http://www.rquirk.com/cdnradar/seacradarfile2b.pdf

Beaufighter 'M' of 89 Squadron on Practice Intercept flown by S/L Morrison, WO Powell and F/L Donner.

Regards,


Leendert

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

A search on the forum finds nothing about this loss: on 29 November 1944 a Fw 200 of Lufthansa flying to Stockholm crashed off Falsterbo, Sweden, probably shot down by the Flak of German patrol ships. All ten men aboard (7 Germans, 2 Swedes and 1 Japanese) were killed.

Sources (using Google translation):
http://www.olyckspost.se/airmail/falsterbo.php
http://www.sydsvenskan.se/omkretsen/vellinge/article322013/Nedskjutet-plan-kan-ge-fler-historiska-pusselbitar.html

Brian if you have more on this case I will be interested.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

This was Fw-200 Condor D-ARHW "Friesland".

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Laurent

I have the identities of crew and passengers. An official investigation concluded that the aircraft had been shot down, possibly in error for a US bomber.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Brian,

I will be interested in the list of crew and passengers of this Condor.

Still finding new (for me) cases.

30th May 1944

At 4:00, the german operation starts after a 20min artillery barrage and air strikes. I./KG4's He 111 bomb enemy artillery positions, claiming an enemy fighter during the mission. The first two german fighter claims around the end of the artillery preparation are a Sturmovik and a Airacobra.
During the first two hours, three times Stukas attack own troops, once even a first-aid station. Two of these friendly-fire incidents affect 23.PzDiv, which is operating on the right wing of the ground forces. Reportedly, this is caused by romanian Stukas, who themselves loose four planes in 93 sorties during the day.

Source:
http://www.yogysoft.de/Bessarabia_5-2.htm

Best regards

Laurent

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello friends,

I have here some friendly fire attacks of german aircraft against german troops during the invasion of Greece. I have this data from Golla, Karl-Heinz: Der Fall Griechenlnds 1941, p. 134ff.

06.04.1941:
a) in the morning troops (mainly III./InfRgt 125) attacking the "Werk E" of the greece fortress-system Usita-Paljurjones are bombed by Stuka - there are "erhebliche Verluste".
b) in the morging, during attack of the 3./PiBtl 659 and III./GebJgRgt 85 on the "Werk Istibei-West", some Stukas missed the targets and dropped bombs against the positions of GebArtRgt 95 (5 dead, 3 wounded) and vehicles-column of FlaMGBtl 609 (8 vehicles are destroyed).
c) in the afternoon a Hs 126 bombed accidently the positions of GebJgRgt 85 (6 dead, 6 severly wounded).

Greetings

Darius

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Regarding the post of Darius, I'm not sure German Hs 126 were carrying bombs during their missions, but it may a misprint for Hs 123 (don't remember if some were used during the Greek campaign) or it could be a Greek Hs 126 (some were in service at the start of the Italian-Greek war in 1940, and so may have flown over the frontline this day.

A new case for me, reminding modern computers: when an intelligent weapon just proves dumb...

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....CORT/BITER.htm

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

I don't recall if this was posted before, but it is friendly fire, sort of.

http://www.bombercommandmuseum.ca/s,canard.html

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Belated thanks guys for the latest.

Bill, what a story. It will certainly find its place in the appropriate volume.

Incidentally, Volume I (1939-40) should appear before Christmas - fingers crossed.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

would you please tell me the name of your book? Thanks!

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Mars

The series - probably five volumes, soft cover, each about 220 good-quality pages (but no photographs) - will be called:

BLUE-ON-BLUE: Aerial Friendly Fire in World War II & Associated Miscellaneous Incidents

Volume I covers Northern Europe 1939-1940: British, French, Polish, German and Neutrals

Probably £19.99 plus postage.

Initially available from me direct, although there will be a website when established by Tally Ho! Publishing

To follow:
Volume II: Northern and Eastern Europe 1941-1943 (incl USAAF)
Volume III: Northern and Eastern Europe 1944-1945 (ditto)
Volume IV: Middle East & Mediterranean 1940-1945
Volume V: Far East incl Indian Ocean and Pacific 1941-1945

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks, Brian, that explains why I can not find this book on amazon, please let us know how to purchase it, it would be lot better if we can buy it via a web site.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Brian,

Is vol I available now ?

Found today a case for vol IV, that you may allready have: a Boston of 18 Sqn RAF on evening of 7 February 1944:

http://www.baseballinwartime.com/in_...ean_george.htm

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

This is one for you...

http://rcaf403squadron.wordpress.com...eorge-borland/

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Incident on 7 December 1944:

A curious record of a standby call for the lifeboat exists in the Station records for the 7th Decemeber 1944. At 8:15pm the Coxswain George Kelly, received a call from the Coastguards at Ramsey requesting the crew immediately assemble and standby. A little over an hour later a second phone call stating that the crew could stand down as the 'position of the destoryer was OK'. The destroyer involved and the nature of its difficulties is not recorded.
However , A Corkills' Dictionary of Shipwrecks off the IoM records that on the night of 7th December 1944, the 190 foot long, steamship Glenmaroon, of Belfast, was bound from Larne for Ellesmere Port, with a cargo of empty petrol cans.
She was about 22 miles east-southeast of Douglas Head when through the darkness and snow squalls came the noise of an aircraft engine, approaching closer and closer. Incredibly the unknown aircraft attacked the Glenmaroon, causing damage to the starboard side of the vessel and started a fierce fire as well as holing the ship. The Glenmaroon began to settle. The lamp trimmer was cut off on the foredeck by the fire, so climbed the port rigging of the foremast and slid down the preventer wire from near the masthead, and managed to get past the fire. Three crewmen were lost when the ship foundered. The destroyer HMS Clare picked up Captain Adair and the survivors.
It has been subsequently discovered that the attacking aircraft was British and had attacked the Glenmaroon by mistake.

Source:
http://www.portstmarylifeboat.org.im/Harrison.htm

A search on CWGC (using Geoff's search engine) finds the three lost crew, Fireman John Dooley, Fireman Christopher Myers and Able Seaman John Redmond.

Best regards

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks for that, Laurent

Now, we need to find out which RAF unit involved.

Hopefully someone will provide additional details.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

On 12 January 1945 Marine aviators operating from CV USS Essex shot down an USAAF B-24 off Indochina: http://www.airgroup4.com/book/indx/index18.htm

No ID of lost aircraft there but some extracs of reports by Marine airmen.

Best regards

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

incident on 4 April 1945
Four P-51 D of 354th FG/353rd FS flying low were hit by allied armored vehicles. Lt Earl Marshall flying 44-63732 reported he was hit but still following his leader just before to disappear in a cloud formation.(macr 13845)
From Steve Blake's Pionner Mustang Group History

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Re post 583 by Laurent: victim was B-24J 42-73249 of 308th BG/374th BS, pilot Lt Robert E. Churgin, lost on a long range patrol off Indochina (Cam Ranh Bay and up) on 12 Jan 45.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks guys

Great stuff!

An excellent resurgence of friendly fire incidents.

Cheers and Happy New Year.

Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian

I have not been religiously following this thread. Therefore, I don't know if you have this one or not. However, an Eric Carter was on the Jeremy Vine BBC Radio programme around midday yesterday 10th January 2012 about his 2nd World War service flying Spitfires and he recalled being shot at by the ground over Liverpool.

I presume you have been through the Crash Logs by Smith and also those by Dr N. Roberts compiled in the 1970s.

I wished, I had kept a separate list of such incidents, as I have come across quite a few references over the years amongst TNA files, some in RAF / AM files dealing with actions / Policy against the GAF or with "enemy" in the file title!

Regards Mark

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian:

I don't think I've seen the following incident reported before, but it is quite a job to confirm that. It's from a secondary source, but what better place to look for more information than here?

Franz Kurowski's Panzer Aces includes the following in its account of Franz Bake's service. The book dates the incident as taking place early on 13 July 1943 and involved the headquarters staff of the 6th Panzer Division, taking part in the Kursk offensive:

"The headquarters staff of the 6th Panzer Division hurried outside to watch the attack. The Stukas bombed the forward Russian lines, while the following He 111 bombers dropped heavy bombs on the troop concentrations in the rear. At the end of the attack one He 111...dropped its bombs when directly over the headquarters of the 6th Panzer Division. All of the officers and commanders standing the open were either killed or wounded... Total casualties from the disaster were fifteen dead and forty nine wounded.'

There are names of some of the killed, including a Major von Bieberstein, commander of the 114th Panzer Grenadier Regiment.

Hope that's of some use.

Finally, IMHO Panzer Aces is full of absurd stories pitched at 12 year olds - it's not on my recommended list!

Cheers

Don W

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks for the latest, Mark and Don.

Much appreciated.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian,

Don't remember to have read it here. On 15 April 1941 an Italian Ba.44 (MM.60423) was shot down in error by a CR.42 over the Albanian front.

Source (in Italian):
http://www.alieuomini.it/catalogo/de..._catalogo/22/3

Best regards

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Excellent material once again, Laurent.

Many thanks. A completely 'new' friendly fire incident for me!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

An article (in French) about an US B-24 shot down by a P-61 on 10 November 1944:
http://francecrashes39-45.net/recits...b8ec51876c429e

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Super stuff, Laurent

Keep it coming!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=29278

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=29336

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

A P-51 of 309th FS shot down by B-24 gunners on 16 April 1944 (not 15 as written there):
http://forum.armyairforces.com/m161860-print.aspx

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

This one is in Russian:
http://allaces.ru/p/people.php?id=00000000420

On 17 January 1944 Ml.Lt Fedor Grigorevich Trutnev of 129 GIAP was shot down in error and killed by AA gunners. This took place probably in Kirovograd area.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks again, Laurent

You should consider writing a book!!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

You're welcome Brian. Maybe one day but right now I have only time to do it as an hobby.

You should have this one, but maybe not with so much details : a Lufthansa Ju 52 shot down near Belgrade on 17 April 1944:

On 17 April 1944 the 82nd FG flew as escort for a B-17 5th Wing mission to Belgrade. Their 97th FS were the only squadron to engage enemy aircraft in the air. They encountered 2 Ju 52s and 2 He 111s some 20 miles NE of Belgrade. 1/Lt. William W. Patterson shot down one Ju 52. The remaining Ju 52 and one of the He 111s were both hit by more than one of the P-38 pilots and shot down. After gun camera review Patterson was given credit for the He 111 while Captain James A. Force,Jr. was credited with the second Ju 52. The second He 111 escaped. The American pilots thought the enemy aircraft might have been returning to base after being scrambled on warning of the incoming raid.

Patterson was later awarded the Silver Star for this action. Apparently the gunner in the He 111 that was shot down damaged three P-38s, two of which were later crash-landed in Italy and were written off. The third damaged P-38 was Patterson’s, but he managed to land safely at an airfield in Italy with one engine shot out.

Ju 52/3m g8e W.Nr. 130859 1Z+FH of 1./TG 1 came down in flames at Pancevo. All 4 crew members were injured, however, the pilot, Ofw. Willi Lichy, died at the military hospital 521 at Belgrade on the same day.

Second victim was unarmed Ju 52/3m g14e W.Nr. 640996 D-AOCA “Harry Rother”, which was enroute on Lufthansa’s scheduled service E.17 from Vienna to Belgrade, continuing to Sofia, Thessaloniki and Athens with a crew of 3. Aboard were 4 passengers and a large load of mail. The radio operator had noticed the downing of the other Ju 52 and the crew tried to escape in vain by changing direction and flying close to the ground. Hits were received from the rear and from starboard and the plane caught fire immediately. It crashed at Stara Pazova (Alt-Pasua in German reports) about 26 km north of Semlin (Zemun) airfield. Three of the four passengers, among them a Red Cross nurse, were killed in the crash while the fourth died at hospital after two days. The pilot, 47 year old Flugkapitän Kurt Vogel, died of his serious injuries on 23 April 1944, while the two other crew members survived with only minor injuries.

Source:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=23304
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stara_Pazova
http://www.maplandia.com/serbia-and-.../stara-pazova/

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Laurent,
One more found by chance, nice picture of a friendly flak fire hole in a Defiant. F/O Desmond McMullen and Sgt Fairweather unhurt.
www.acesofww2.com/UK/aces/mcmullen.html
Cordialement, Thierry

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Thierry

Thanks for the lead.

However, something definitely wrong with the caption.

Not A/G 'Sgt Fairweather' for a start! The person pictured is a Flight Lieutenant pilot!

Mac is wearing Squadron Leader stripes, so not Flying Officer!

And I would guess that is not a Defiant, but possibly a Mosquito!

So if that picture depicts friendly AA fire it happened later in the war.

I will bear this 'incident' in mind when researching later volumes of the Blue on Blue series.

Thanks
Brian