Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

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Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)

- Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8)

- - 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=19899)

Tomislav Haramincic

10th February 2010 22:56

Re: 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodM (Post 101070)

Also, you wouldn't happen to know the surname of the Uffz. killed on the same night while piloting Bf109 G6 411493?

Hi guys,

Rod, are you sure abou this Werknummer? According to Lorrant/Goyat's JG300 series, this Werknummber was lost already on 20.06.44

Bf 109G-6 WNr.411493 20.06.44 8./JG300 Ofw. Franz Knoll (verw.), Luftkampf - Absturz, FSA, Viereck/Pasewalk - 100% rt.15+

best regards,
Tomislav

RodM	10th February 2010 23:22

Re: 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

Hi Tomislav,

thanks for the interesting info.

This specific WN (411493) is referred to a couple of times in British ULTRA decrypts - in a II./NJG11 strength return for 5th April 1945 and in a ULTRA II./NJG11 QM Loss Return in April 1945.

While it is not impossible that the decrypts are wrong, I have no idea upon what documentary source(s) Lorrant/Goyat based their information, so I cannot comment further.

Hi Franck,

I can well understand the confusion considering that this is an 'international' board :)

Cheers

Rod

RT	10th February 2010 23:34

Re: 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

One thing against the 411493 with NJG11, that is quite a pretty old aircraft for an unit using state of the art technics

Remi

RodM	11th February 2010 00:19

Re: 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

Hi Remi,

it isn't the only 'old' G6 WN quoted as being on strength at that time (5 April 1945). Among the others were 412914, 4129xx, and, of course, 412910 is mentioned in Genst.Gen.Qu.6.Abt. 210/45.

Other 1945 returns in the T. series of ULTRA decrypts would probably indicate similar WN (see CX/MSS/T458/18 and CX/MSS/T516/79; I don't have the HW 5 versions of these decrypts, which are the ones that provide WN).

Cheers

Rod

RT	11th February 2010 09:12

Re: 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

Shame on me, next time i WILL CHECK,
T516/79 gives, 491162+782384+166333+ possibly 411493

Rémi

RT	11th February 2010 09:16

Re: 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

Check is a must , even if it is time consuming, for the Pasewalk loss , I noted 441493..

Rémi

RodM	11th February 2010 10:21

Re: 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

Hi Rémi,

thanks for the clarifications :)

Rod

Tomislav Haramincic

11th February 2010 10:45

Re: 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

Yes, thank you Remi!

RodM	12th February 2010 00:48

Re: 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

Quote:

Originally Posted by RT (Post 101079)

have answered the first part of my own question, I found the II./NJG11 strength return d. 5/4/45, listing 166333.

So with this one that makes 4,

With the name I don't found any, the loss was reported twice at least, but no name pop-up

On 27.April I hv a loss for a Bf109, no Wn hptm Schulze killed , unit NAGr.13 or NJGr.11 , sic, any thought about that one ??

Rémi

Hi Rémi, I've gone through the CX/MSS/R reports for the late April and May 1945 period but there is no information on this loss (Schulze). In general, very late war ULTRA of Nachtjagd operational info is sparse, probably on account of units sending less Enigma traffic via wireless and units not flying. For example, NJG4 traffic, once so volumous, all but dried up with the late-war move into northern Germany.

Cheers

Rod

brewerjerry

13th February 2010 04:40

Re: 4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

Quote:

Originally Posted by ouidjat (Post 101169)

Hi gents,

Thanks for your answer Rod. Glad to know that. Nevertheless, the majority of Lost lists I've found on Net are written the american way, particularly the Kracker list which is english I suppose?! That's the reason I asked for this precision.
Regards,
Franck.

Hi
Thanks didn't know about this site, with the kracker list.
http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety...xisPilots.html
cheers
Jerry

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