4./NJG11 Bf109 WN '1666333', lost 3-4 April 1945

[RodM]

Hello one and all,

a British ULTRA report records the loss of a 'Bf109 G6' of 4./NJG11 during Nachtschlacht sortie on the night of 3-4 April 1945. The WN of the Bf109 is recorded as '1666333', which is obviously a typo.

Does anyone have an idea what the correct WN would/could be?

Cheers

Rod

[RT]

Hello Rod,


Quite for sure 166333, it is quoted 2 times for that date, + 1 time on febr 45 with some troubled engine

Remi

[RodM]

Hi RT,

thanks for that. When you say 'quoted' do you mean ULTRA or other sources?

Also, you wouldn't happen to know the surname of the Uffz. killed on the same night while piloting Bf109 G6 411493?

Cheers

Rod

[RodM]

Hi RT,

have answered the first part of my own question, I found the II./NJG11 strength return d. 5/4/45, listing 166333.

Cheers

Rod

[RT]

have answered the first part of my own question, I found the II./NJG11 strength return d. 5/4/45, listing 166333.

So with this one that makes 4,

With the name I don't found any, the loss was reported twice at least, but no name pop-up

On 27.April I hv a loss for a Bf109, no Wn hptm Schulze killed , unit NAGr.13 or NJGr.11 , sic, any thought about that one ??

Rémi

[RodM]

Originally Posted by RT

On 27.April I hv a loss for a Bf109, no Wn hptm Schulze killed , unit NAGr.13 or NJGr.11 , sic, any thought about that one ??

Rémi

Hi Rémi,

I haven't extracted any data from ULTRA on this loss. If you found the data in ULTRA, can you please indicate the CX/MSS/T. or R. number (i.e. T.536/R.536) and I'll have a gander through the CX/MSS/R reports...

Cheers

Rod

[RodM]

Originally Posted by RT

have answered the first part of my own question, I found the II./NJG11 strength return d. 5/4/45, listing 166333.

So with this one that makes 4,

With the name I don't found any, the loss was reported twice at least, but no name pop-up

On 27.April I hv a loss for a Bf109, no Wn hptm Schulze killed , unit NAGr.13 or NJGr.11 , sic, any thought about that one ??

Rémi

Hi Rémi, I've gone through the CX/MSS/R reports for the late April and May 1945 period but there is no information on this loss (Schulze). In general, very late war ULTRA of Nachtjagd operational info is sparse, probably on account of units sending less Enigma traffic via wireless and units not flying. For example, NJG4 traffic, once so volumous, all but dried up with the late-war move into northern Germany.

Cheers

Rod

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Originally Posted by RodM

Also, you wouldn't happen to know the surname of the Uffz. killed on the same night while piloting Bf109 G6 411493?

Hi guys,

Rod, are you sure abou this Werknummer? According to Lorrant/Goyat's JG300 series, this Werknummber was lost already on 20.06.44

Bf 109G-6 WNr.411493 20.06.44 8./JG300 Ofw. Franz Knoll (verw.), Luftkampf - Absturz, FSA, Viereck/Pasewalk - 100% rt.15+

best regards,
Tomislav

[RodM]

Hi Tomislav,

thanks for the interesting info.

This specific WN (411493) is referred to a couple of times in British ULTRA decrypts - in a II./NJG11 strength return for 5th April 1945 and in a ULTRA II./NJG11 QM Loss Return in April 1945.

While it is not impossible that the decrypts are wrong, I have no idea upon what documentary source(s) Lorrant/Goyat based their information, so I cannot comment further.

Hi Franck,

I can well understand the confusion considering that this is an 'international' board

Cheers

Rod

[RT]

One thing against the 411493 with NJG11, that is quite a pretty old aircraft for an unit using state of the art technics

Remi