English-French translation, request for assistance
 

I would like to make a request for French translation of the words listed below. I am interested in terms which were in use in France in 1940.

- ground command centre (responsible for ground controlled interceptions),
- a small unit consisting of 3 airplanes (in German it is Kette)? patrouille?
- commander (e.g. flight commander, squadron commander)
- oxygen installation
- unit [military unit]
- subunit

Thanks in advance!

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

- ground command centre: there was only one, which was exprimental, called "salle de filtrage".
- a small unit consisting of 3 airplanes: patrouille, 3 planes - patrouille légère, 2 planes - patrouille double, 6 planes - patrouille légère double, 4 planes, etc.
- commander: commandant d'escadrille, commandant de groupe, commandant d'escadre, etc.
- oxygen installation: système d'oxygène
- unit [military unit]: unité
- subunit: what do you mean?

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

Thanks! It looks a little bit complicated. So generally, units consisting of 2-6 airplanes are called "patrouille" - additional word is added (e.g. patrouille légère) only when we know number of the planes?

And one additional question: what was the name of the air defense observation points/stations (I mean such points/stations, which were helping own fighters to intercept advancing bombers; they were giving information about heading and altitude)?

Subunit - as far as I know, all military units larger than battalion are called "units". Everything smaller is a "sub-unit".

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

Not exactly. At the start of the war the usual formation for French fighters was a 3-plane formation (called patrouille). These 3-plane formations could be combined to form 6 (2 * 3) or 9 (3 * 3) formation, respectively called "patrouille double" et "patrouille triple".

Bigger formations were usually described as combinations of the above, with for example a "patrouille triple" with a "patrouille double" as high cover, for a formation of 15 aircraft.

The patrouille légère was the name given to the formation with only 2 aircraft. As for the usual "patrouille", it was possible to combine them and form a "patrouille légère double" with 4 aircraft (2 * 2). AFAIK, there was no "patrouille légère triple" used, as the 6 aircraft will rather fly in two formations of 3 ("patrouille double").

The French équivalent of the Observer Corps in 1939-1940 was the "service de guet aérien" or "guet aérien".

Subunit: there is no such size distinction in France.

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

Merci Laurent.

The basic French Air Force (or armée de l'Air) unit was the "groupe".
A group was made of two "escadrilles" (squadrons), but they seldom fought independently.

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

Thank you Laurent! Names of the formations are clear now.

I would like to ask one more question concerning observer posts. Did they have direct radio communication with own fighters (in 1940)? If not, what is the correct French name of the posts/centres/stations which had such contact?

Which word should be used in a French sentence: "fighters took of from Chartres airfield"? aeroport? aerodrome? Which word should be used to name a military airfield?

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

I have never read anything about a post of "guet aérien" able to use radio for direct contact with French fighters. Exemples I have seen is that the "guet aérien" was using phone to warm the airfield where fighters were based (either directly or through an Air Force HQ is not clear for me) and then fighters were scrambled. Once in the air, French pilots were usually on their own to find their targets.

For your second question, "aéroport" is rather used for a civilian/commercial airfield, and "aérodrome" will be OK for a military airfield, but the most used word in French military papers for airfield will be "terrain". "Aérodrome" may be used for peacetime bases with hard runways, while "terrain" may cover either them or wartime airfields using fields and so on. For big bases (like Villacoublay for instance), one can also find the expression "camp d'aviation".

May I ask if you want to translate English into French, or the other way ?

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

There were some "véhicules-radio" (radio cars) equipped with SARAMM radio sets which could send messages (provided they could stand on higher grounds) to the leader of a "patrouille", the only one that could tune into the radio-car transmission.
However, with no other assistance, these radio-cars gave a much limited support and their instructions were more often than not forgotten.

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

It will be rather uncommon translation: Polish to French. I suppose, that without my help, my translator would have serious problems with translations of the military terms.

Radio contact: I have several reports from 1940 with information about attacks of the French fighters - attacks which were coordinated from the ground by the observer posts ("ground stations"). During them pilots were receiving information about heading, altitude and number of German planes.

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

I wonder with what. We had only one radar in use and it worked like photoelectric cells - it could tell that "something" had crossed the beam, approximatively where, but not what, how many and how high. It was so trustworthy and useful that it was abandonned soon after May 10 when it became saturated by too high a number of aircraft flying past the beam.

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

Information like altitude, heading, type were provided by ground observer posts. As far as I know, there were two ways, to inform about that own fighters: radio and special signs lying on the ground.

Of course all information were very, very inaccurate.

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

Is that what the Poles tell? They sure make a confusion with what happened later with the RAF.
The early warning system was soon overran by the fast German advance and apart from binoculars they had no device to assess altitude or speed.
The radio aboard the fighters was virtually impossible to use and only the leader could receive orders (when his set was working).

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

Yes, it is what Polish pilots reported. But not at the end of war, or after the war. It is what they reported just after evacuation to Great Britain: in June - September 1940! So there is no confusion with British air defense system.

In their reports they all the time write, that French ADS was not working properly and observer posts were providing very inaccurate information.

My text will be published in French (in France), so you should be able to read it and maybe find something new for you. I very often quote original reports, what should have a special value for French enthusiasts. Most likely these documents have never been published in French language.

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

Possibly, but we had a lot of very serious articles published in French mags by Polish historians such as Grzegorz Slizewki, Jerzy B. Cynk and their like.
So I don't expect any "scoop" that would revolutionize what we already know.
All the more when they talk about things that never were.
But that's your problem and I wish you good luck.

Re: English-French translation, request for assistance
 

Thank you CJE for your wishes and for your help. Of course I am not going to revolutionise anything. In my short "French text" I am focusing just on one town and history of the Polish Air Force personnel, which was based there. If only possible, I quote original reports/memories. Instead of writing "X shot down Y at 1500 hours in area Z", reader can read original document (its translation) and find many interesting details, which usually are not published in the articles.