VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

If everyone else missed this, my apologies. In the summer of 2012 dredging in the UK Thames Estuary recovered from a single location 300+ fragments from an aircraft including a BMW 801 powerplant, VDM propeller, and debris including Nitrous Oxide boost controls, fragments of a FuG 25, and an aerial camera plate. These strongly suggest this is remains of a VVObdL Ju 88T T9+FH 0678 shot down during a sortie to photograph the Marconi works at Chelmsford on April 20th 1943. Interestingly a second VDM propellor, from a different a/c, was also recovered.

A little about this is now published in Gane, T., and Scott, G., 2014 'Archaeology from the Sky, The Air War Over the Thames Estuary'. DP World, London Gateway, Wessex Archaeology (ISBN 978-1-874350-78-1). A pdf can be found on the www.londongateway.com website.

Best, Chris.

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

Site a bit hard to navigate from there:

try

http://www.londongateway.com/media/c...web4client.pdf


Chris

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

I presume it had two BMW 801 engines and two VDM props.
The Ju 88 was basically twin engine.

W.Nr. 0880678 was originally an Ju 88 A-5 version. (Thus not an Ju 88 T). Official loss has it as D-6, but (I think) it was an Ju 88 C-7 Zerstörer-Recce Experimental (an conversion).

0678 Ju 88 C-7´ [T9+FH] 1.(V)/Ob.d.L.” (Luftflotte 5)
OPS (F) rep downed by enemy fire (100%) unk location (Chelmsford) [was downed near Chelmsford, Essex, Britain] 20.04.1943 (F Lt. Hans Bäumer mis/rep ´killed´ in f/05.05.43 ~ rep POW in England c/26.06.43, Lt. Paul Hunold and Ofw. Hermann Dietz mis/rep KIA f/05.05.43)

Regards
Ed

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

T9+FH shot down from high altitude by Lt. M Eriksen in a Spitfire of 322 Sqd. on 20-4-1943. Combat 5 miles off Clacton, crew baled out at 1145 hrs, pilot rescued and treated in Brighlingsea hospital with burns (severe?). Mission recon. to Chelmsford

Brian Bines

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

Chris Going: pdf does not show and corresponding report does not appears be there.
I can not find it.

Ed

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

Seems to have got truncated, Ed: try

http://www.londongateway.com/media/c...web4client.pdf

Nox controls have written/painted instructions which supports a conversion.

Chris

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

Ok, got this on second try.

But I raise (some) doups as to this be the correct (aircraft type). Items could wery well be from Ju 188 F-1 (Recce, BMW 801) as GM-1 also could be fitted to this types BMW 801 engines, but as two (or more) wrecks are intermixed, hard to prove.

No real airframe parts are shown in pdf, just "items" (not type specific). Most minour airframe parts or fittings was same on Ju 88 and Ju 188 series, and many (most) were older Ju 88 designed. I have quite a few many Ju 88 part numbers (8-88.xxx.xxx ) in Ju 188 docs!

Ed

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/b1vers.html
Loss is listed there as C-7

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

Thanks, have amended (abowe)!

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

I have this Ju 88 T-1, 430678. Probably got this info from NVM. I have no info on the loss of 0880678.

Matti

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

Matti,
The D-1 430678 D7+FN is in your db. It was lost with Westa 5 (Wekústa 5) when downed by U-boat 10(11).06.44), but earlier it had an accident with 2.(F)/123 at Tatoi (Greece) in September 1943. Thus two references exist for D-1 430678 after April 1943. And this is not in lists I have of Ju 88 T-1 conversions. Unfortunately this is not complete.

As I understand things, the T9+FH was 0880678 (given Ju 88 0678 in GQM losses), an older Ju 88 A-5 converted to Ju 88 C-7 by Junkers.

Other Ju 88 C-7 (0648 T9+EH) had four blade props and has several known photos. But an Ju 88 C-7 with remains of an large waterpaint "8" on cabin side (0648 or 0678) had three blade VDM props - this has known photograph in unknown "southern country" (one groundcrew is wearing sunhat) - possibly Crete (?)
One Ju 88 C-7 was reported with 2.(F)/123 (07.42 to 08.42), reportedly the K9+VH in Crete (this can have been the third or 0678 but info on this is scarce. Best article yet out on C-7 is by Peter Achs, in Flugzeug Classic, 11/2005, altho focus is on the Torbocarger testing).

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

Ed,
Right, I have two conflicting 100 % losses with same Werk.-Nr. I am reading you loud and clear, that 430678 is correct for 2.(F)/123 and Westa 5 losses and therefore T9+EH must be C-7, 0880678. Will correct it in my database. Thanks for pointing out this error.

Matti

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

We discussed the loss of WNr 430678 earlier in this forum: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=25869

This aircraft flew weather recce to Jan Mayen and was reported missing after sending a distress signal stating an engine failure on their return leg northwest of Trondheim on 11 June 1944. It could not have been the aircraft shot down in the friendly fire incident by U-243 southwest of Bergen during the night of 10/11 June 1944 - the other weather recce Ju 88 involved in this incident is still unidentified.

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

Bäumer's interrogation is in ADI(K) 180/1943. He is said to have been talkative "except on service matters" and described his aircraft as a "Ju 88 B with BMW 801 engines and a crew of three." There is no mention of a Werk Nummer.

Re: VVObdL Ju88T remains from the Thames Estuary...
 

Ok, thank you Rainer. Had missed out on post of June 2013.
(Have amended to "not shot down by U.243")

Items recovered from Thames Esuary also could fit for Ju 188 F (BMW 801 engines) but the C-7 0678 had provision one camera (of size 30x30 cm film), same size as recovered, but the Ju 188 F´s also had this film sizes...