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Old 12th June 2011, 11:43
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944

Hello, I have some questions about a Wekusta Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944 off Norway.

Here is what I found so far:

During the night of 10-11 June 1944 U-243, that had sailed from Stavanger on 8 June, shot down an approaching aircraft in AN 2911 position. The aircraft flew over boat at a height of 40 meters and was too late in replying with recognition signals. After the aircraft crash it was identified as a Ju 88. The Wekusta 5 reported on 11 June the loss of the Ju 88 D-1 WNr 430678 D7+FN that was lost 200km NW Trondheim, Norway ( in Pl.Qu.06/Ost/8633), with four crew: Ofw. Erich Kubin (pilot), Gefr. Hans Wallenfang (radio) and Gefr. Werner Schnattler (Bw) were posted missing while WD-Insp. Werner Platz (meteorologist) was reported as killed, so probably his crew was found and identified by the submarine crew. According to a source, the submarine rescued another meteorologist, Wd. Ass. Günter Rudolph of Wekusta 3. The U-243 arrived at Bergen on 12 June

Sources used:
http://www.rafandluftwaffe.info/luftwaffe1.html
http://www.warcovers.dk/greenland/wekusta3.htm
http://www.warcovers.dk/greenland/wekusta5.htm
http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB30348.htm
http://www.uboat.net/boats/patrols/index.html?boat=243

My questions:

1) what is a Bw (position of Werner Schnattler in crew) ?

2) has someone the time when U-243 shot down the Ju 88 ?

3) can someone confirm the crew of the Ju 88 ? Either there were two meteorologist aboard, one experienced inspector (Platz) and one less so (Rudoph, as an assistant), either there was a confusion in names.

Thanks in advance
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  #2  
Old 12th June 2011, 12:56
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944

The only part I can answer is that Bw = "Bordwart". The British usually translated this as "flight mechanic", a technician who was part of the air crew.
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Old 12th June 2011, 13:29
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Peter D Evans Peter D Evans is offline
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Re: Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944

Hi guys,

Perhaps of use, perhaps not... but from a published source, the following is reproduced from the excellent "Wekusta, Luftwaffe Meteorological Reconnaissance Units and Operations 1938-45" by J.A.Kington & F.Selinger [Flight Recorder Publications, 2006] and appears to show that there were two missions involving Ju88D's, one of Wekusta 7 and a second under Wekusta 3:

Wekusta 7 (page 112): "In the hectic days of June, with the Allied invasion in Normandy under way, a mission on the 11th to Jan Mayen failed. On the return leg about 300km (190miles) west of Trondheim, Offw Kubin, piloting Ju88D-1, D7+FN radioed an engine failure and was eventually reported missing with all his crew, including Wd Insp Werner Platz.

Wekusta 3 (page 75): "Operations continued as before, but on 11th June a Ju88D-1 with Wd Ass Günter Rudolph (Met B) was shot down by an unidentified German U-Boat on the outward leg of a weather sortie from Stravanger. Only the flight engineer survived and was rescued , the identities of the other crew members and aircraft are not recorded"

The author has added a numbered footnote to the U-Boat by saying that it was "probably one of the 11 U-Boats of the Mitte group which formed a defensive screen between Trondheim and Lindesnes in anticipation of an Allied invasion of Norway."

More pieces to add to the jigsaw

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Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Last edited by Peter D Evans; 12th June 2011 at 13:45. Reason: Spelling
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Old 12th June 2011, 15:36
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944

NVM of Wekusta 5 confirms these four crew members. NVM of Wekusta 3 has obviously not survived.

Matti
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Old 12th June 2011, 16:10
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944

Thanks to all. I was hoping that the book Wekusta will allow to reply my question.

I just check the Summary of Lutwaffe losses and there are two losses registered by Wekusta 5 this day: one aircraft missing due to enemy action, reported on 13 June, and one destroyed without enemy action on operational flight, reported on 14 June.

So it seems that two Ju 88 may have been lost these days, one to engine failure with no survivor, and the other shot down by U-243 with one survivor rescued.

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Old 12th June 2011, 23:58
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944

Hi Laurent

Please conact me by e-mail briancullauthor@fsmail.net

Cheers
Brian
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Old 9th January 2012, 14:00
RT RT is offline
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Re: Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944

According to a source, the submarine rescued another meteorologist, Wd. Ass. Günter Rudolph of Wekusta 3. The U-243 arrived at Bergen on 12 June

Seems to be in a plane of the

Seetr,St, Hera Insel A JU52 7143

Rémi
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Old 10th January 2012, 01:24
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944

So here's a question. This loss presents another possible WNr. conflict. I have a previous loss for WNr. 430678, but the WNr. was listed as 0678 in the Gen.Qu. losses so I likely made a wrong assumption for the first two digits, or that was the WNr. as reported in "The Blitz, Then & Now" - anyone have any other info on the first loss?

Ju 88T-1, 430678, Bäumer, Ltn. Hans J., , , 1., Versuchsverband Ob.d.L, , T9+FH, , , 20-Apr-43, POW due to Luftkampf with Spitfire from 322 Sq. (Eriksen). B & Bf KIA., WNr. 0678, 20-Feb (correction from 20-Apr) per loss. Essex in southern UK., Lfl.5/Atlantik, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #9)-Vol.16; The Blitz, Then & Now, III, p.247, , vor Clacton-on-Sea, Essex, 100%, F, B Ltn. Paul Hunold & Bf Ofw. Hermann Dietz, ,
Ju 88D-1/trop, 430678, n.n., , , 2.(F), 123, , , , , 22-Sep-43, Bruchlandung due to engine trouble., , Lw.Kdo.Südost/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.21, , Fl.Pl. Tatoi, 10%, H, , ,
Ju 88D-1, 430678, Kubin, Ofw. Erich, , , , Wekusta 5, , D7+FN, , , 11-Jun-44, MIA with crew due to engine trouble., , , http://www.rafandluftwaffe.info/lists/luftwaffe2.htm, , 200km nordwestlich Trondheim (Pl.Qu.06 Ost / 86 33), 100%, F, Wd.Insp. Werner Platz, Bf Gefr. Hans Wallenfang & Bw Gefr. Werner Schnattler, ,
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Old 10th January 2012, 04:30
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944

Jim. First entry (I suspect) was A-5 / converted as "D-6" (088)0678 T9+FH of 4.(F)/Ob.d.L (my guess) but crew possibly of 1.(V)/Ob.d.L (?) - Then others ok.
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Old 10th January 2012, 16:58
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Ju 88 shot down by U-243 on 11 June 1944

Ed

Since all the other (F)/ObdL staffeln on 27 Jan 1943 had become 1-3./Aufkl Gr 100, it is very likely that 4.(F)/Ob d L also changed its title at around that time. Since we know it became 1./Versuchv.Ob d L, it is quite likely the loss is as per Jim's files, unless someone has a confirmed designation change date here.

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Stig
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