LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Hello

Its my first post in here , i have tried looking information about this guy and i was told that this forum is my only chance...
Looking for any information on recipment of this goblet :

FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN Awarded on 20.6.42.

Can anyone tell me anyting about him ?

Regards
Greg

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Hi Greg

Patzwall's book lists him as a pilot. He is not listed by Scherzer for the DKiG, which is a shame as that would have given us his unit.

I can't find him in my other references but others may well have more.

Good luck!

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Without a Date of Birth it is not possible to be 100% certain but this one is listed in the Volksbund. He is still listed as MIA:

Nachname: Sielmann
Vorname: Wilhelm
Geburtsdatum: 30.06.1918
Todes-/Vermisstendatum:15.07.1943
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Süditalien

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

There is also this one:

Nachname: Sielmann
Vorname: Wilhelm Hermann
Geburtsdatum: 20.09.1904
Geburtsort: Wissentrup
Todes-/Vermisstendatum:16.06.1945
Todes-/Vermisstenort: in poln. Kgf. Lg. Neuhammer/Queis/Schl.

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

huck and tim , thank you for your informations , does anyone has access to Ehren Liste from that year ? Pokal was found in Northern Poland , in and old house that family of recipment used to live in...

Iam tryding to determine where this guy served and for which action ? was he awarded with Honor Goblet....

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Hi Greg

The Pokal was usually awarded for a series of successful missions rather than for a single action. Around 80 missions would typically be required by a bomber crewman to qualify for the Pokal for example.

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Hi Tim,

But than you are talking about those that got the Ehrenpokal for their missions in the West. Sielmann got his Ehrenpokal in juni of 1942, so he may have never flown missions in the West. On the Eastfront you could double that number. For a bomber crew I would say between 150-200 missions.

Regards, Thomas

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Hi Thomas

You are absolutely correct that the criteria changed as the war went on (as they did for the Ritterkreuz, DKiG, etc.). The point I was trying to make was that award of the Pokal was not usually for a single action, as Greg seemed to think.

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

I learned something new :) again my question does anyone has ehrenliste from that year ?

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Greg, that is an unusual patina for an Alpaca Pokal, can you show the markings on the bottom?

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

POKAL was found in bad condition in old garage , it was renowated maybe thats the reason you dont like this look. Here is a photo how it looked like whn found,

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

OK, that explains it.

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Hi Tim,

There you stand 100% correct!

I have two groups to bomber crew members who never got the Pokal, although flying over 150 missions. Without more information on Sielmann I would say he also must have flown at least 150 missions before getting his Pokal (assuming he was of a bomber crew). On the Eastfront this number could be flowns within one year. Which could mean none of his missions were against the West.

Kind regards, Thomas

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Hi Thomas

I have a few bomber groupings too and it's is extraordinary what was expected of these guys and how many missions they flew. There is certainly inconsistency in the rewards they received. Just as an observation from my collection, it seems crews including an officer often got rewarded faster than NCO crews.

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Greg,

I take it you are not the same person I gave a response to on Wehrmacht-Awards in July?

He was positively identified but his name was misspelled on the loss reports...also the dates slightly differ....

Nachname: Sielmann
Vorname: Wilhelm
Geburtsdatum: 30.06.1918
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 15.07.1943
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Süditalien

Sielmann, Wilhelm. Feldwebel
Flugzeugführer
29.06.1942 Ehrenpokal

Unfortunately there is no photo of him in the Vermisstenbildliste. The photo page comes from FP Nr. 25443 - I./Kampf-Geschwader 76.

The other two crewmen are not listed except Karl Scholz......additionally I may have a photo of Kriechbaumer but need to verify if its the same guy.

/Ian

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Ian

Yes thats me you answered on another forum , in this forum i was trying to get maybe some more information...

Regards
Greg

Re: LW Ehren Pokal FELDWEBEL WILHELM SIELMANN AM 20.6.42
 

Ian a strange serial for an Ju 88
I think this is not correct.

Regards Peter van Gogh