Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good morning,

a fighter's fighter: the Curtiss P-40 was successful in nearly every WW2 operational theatre except Western Europe. However, quite few aces attained high scores in it. The following are the ten most successful P-40 aces that I know, ranked by their P-40 scores (totals in brackets):

1. Caldwell: 20,5(28,5)
2. Novichkov: 19(29)
3. Drake: at least 16(21)
4. Pokryshev: at least 15,1(38+8sh?)
5. Hill: 13,25(13,25)
6. Hampshire: 13(13)
7. Holloway: 13(13)
8. Neale: 13(13)
9. Edwards: 12,83(16,08)
10. Waddy: 12,5(15,5)

Compiling them I came across a guy named Robert Lee Scott whose score is unclear to me. Does he deserve a rank in this list ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

The author of God is My Copilot...famous book,read it in the 60s. According to Olynyk, 10 victories flying P-40Es as the commander of the 23rd FG in CBI (China-Burma-India)

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

You're right, I found him in the OSPREY volume by Molesworth.

I also forgot Hill's P51-kills in my P-40 top ten list.
Corrected it reads like this:

Caldwell: 20,5(28,5)
Novichkov: 19(29)
Drake: at least 16(21)
Pokryshev: at least 15,1(38+8sh?)
Hill: 13,25(15,25)
Hampshire: 13(13)
Holloway: 13(13)
Neale: 13(13)
Edwards: 12,83(16,08)
Waddy: 12,5(15,5)

Does any of you guys have a complete Pokryshev kill list ?

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Michael,

What project are you working on?

Stephen

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good morning Stephen,

I'm a passionate collector of top-aces-by-plane, i.e. P40-Caldwell, Bf110-Schnaufer, SPAD7-Guynemer and so on.
In the meantime, I also compile top ten ace rankings of some intresting planes, e.g.
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=43338
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=43121

What is your favourite topic ?

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good morning,

George Mellinger in "Sovie Lend-Lease Fighter Aces of World War 2" assigns a P-40 score of 19 and a total of 29 to Stepan Novichkov.
However, this website
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/n/novichkv_s.htm
gives him a P-40 score of 6,33 and a total of 33,33.
Which is more valid ?

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Michael,

I know it has been pointed out to you before, but you really do need to obtain the Mikhail Bykov book, Все асы Сталина 1936–1953 (All Stalin's Aces). I obtained a copy cheaply and quickly from a bookseller in Moscow, Viktor Kulikov: viktor_kulikov@mail.ru.

Although entirely in Russian, it is easy enough to follow, and Google Translate is very handy.

This will answer all of your questions on Soviet aces. Books like those by Mellinger are superseded entirely by the work of Bykov.

Cheers,
Andrew A.

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

I've just acquired Tomas Polak's Stalin's Falcons. Is that a reliable and comprehensive source (compared to the ones you've quoted) ?

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

I would doubt that as it is full of mistakes :-(
It reminds me of the WW1 titles of Grub Street.
Is Hans Seidl's "Stalin's Eagles" better ?

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

IMHO Bykov is the man, he has went through the archives, the western writers had only used secondary Soviet era sources and are unreliable. I have Polak's book and it was disappointment. I doubt that Seidl's book is any better.

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Hello Juha,

how do you explain those often quoted scores such as Shestakov's 8+31 Spanish Civil War kills or Novichkov's 19 P-40 kills ?
Fantasy ?
Lies ?
Propaganda ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

I don't know. Looked from Maslov's Polikarpov I-15, I-16 and I-153 Aces (Osprey) info on Shestakov. In text he writes that Shestakov got 2+1 in Spain but added that some sources put his score in Spain at 8 aircraft shot down. And later, after a very short survey on Shestakov's actions during the GPW, that "In 82 aerial engagements he achieved 15 individual and 11 shared kills prior to his death in combat on 13 March 1944,...Shestakov's total score, including his service in Spain, had risen to 23 individual and 44 shared victories..." This last figure is also in the "Soviet Polikarpov Aces" table at the end of the book. So Shestakov's score in Spain was 2+1, 8 or 8+33 according to Maslov.

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Hello Juha,

you're right, I checked the Maslov book again.
Personally, I would not consider it impossible for Shestakov to score 8 individual plus more than 30 shared kills in Spain. But I think it's virtually impossible to do so and becoming a HSU not until 10Feb1942. Thus, I assume a spain score of 2+1sh is far more likely.

After scrutinizing the website that's based on Bykov's work, my P-40 top ten ace list needs an update:

ace: P-40 score(total score)

1. Caldwell: 20,5(28,5)
2. Drake: at least 16(21)
3. Pokryshev: 15,1(23,6) - according to Bykov
4. Hill: 13,25(15,25)
5. Litavrin: 13(18) - according to Bykov
6. Hampshire: 13(13)
7. Holloway: 13(13)
8. Neale: 13(13)
9. Edwards: 12,83(16,08)
10. Zotov: 12,73-13,73(22,18-23,18) - according to Bykov

I dropped Waddy (12,5 P-40 kills) and Novichkov (6,33 P-40 kills according to Bykov, 19 P-40 kills according to Mellinger).

Some questions remain:

• I'm still looking for Drake's definite P-40 score. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=45616
• How many pilots took part in the Viktor Zotov's 2 shared kills on 30Sep1942 ?
• I found a guy in the www: Михалин Михаил Федорович with 14+2sh P-40 kills. Is he real ?

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Update: I found another high-scoring P-40 pilot named Nikolai Zelenov.
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/zh/zelenov_na.htm
Total score of 33,4 [30+12],
P-40 score: 19,23 [17+8]

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Hello Michael.
The Russian scores seem to have many variations - it seems to me more so than for other nations. narod.ru has Zelenov as [30+10]. Other scores have him as [24+12], [24+10] and [29+8], but I'm pretty sure you would have seen those already. Maybe they are WW2 only, and how these variations might affect your lists ......
Peter

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good evening Peter,

yes, the Soviet scores differ so much in different sources.
I think this website
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/m.htm
is based of the research results of Mr. Bykov and therefore the best source in the www.

Can you confirm that Mikhail Mikhalin (Михалин Михаил Федорович) has scored his 14+2 kills in the P-40 ? Or can you tell the the decimals of his shared kills ?

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Update: by courtesy of Stukapilot I learned that Mikhail Mikhalin (Михалин Михаил Федорович) has scored 14 individual kills and two half-shares. The aircraft he flew can be determined by having a look on what his comrades in 126. and 191. IAP flew:
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/b/belyasnik.htm
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/l/litvinenko.htm
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/m/mitrohin.htm
It is justified to say that he scored all of his kills in the P-40 except his last one (La-5). Thus he deserves a rank within the P-40 top ten list and Mr Edwards has to be dropped:

1. Caldwell: 20,5 (28,5)
2. Zelenov: 19,23 (33,4)
3. Drake: at least 16 (21)
4. Pokryshev: 15,1 (23,6)
5. Mikhalin: 14 (15)
6. Hill: 13,25 (15,25)
7. Litavrin: 13 (18)
8. Hampshire: 13 (13)
9. Holloway: 13 (13)
10. Neale: 13 (13)

• possibly: Zotov: 12,73-13,73 (22,18-23,18)

I wish I knew to decimals of Viktor Zotov's 2 shared kills on 30Sep1942.

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Addendum:

• the top US P-40 ace is Hill with 13,25 kills (scored in the AVG & USAAF)
• the top USAAF P-40 aces are Hampshire and Holloway with 13 kills each
• the top AVG ace is Neale with 13 kills

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

As a suggestion Michael, in listing the P-40 aces is it worthwhile to break them down by Theatre?

Doesn't affect the Soviets or British as in their Theatre of Ops (Russia and Western Desert respectively) they always faced the same enemy ie Germans, over basically the same country.

But there is quite a difference with the Americans. They flew the P-40 in greatly varied circumstances each unique ie MTO, CBI and SWP. Each of the four Americans you have mentioned all fought in the CBI.

In the SWP the top scoring P-40 pilot was Robert deHaven with 10 victories. In the MTO it was Levi Chase, also with 10 victories.

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good morning Jim,

interesting consideration.
Currently, I'm trying to prove that the P-40 scored kills on all five continents:

• Europe: Nikolai Zelenov & Co
• Africa: Clive Caldwell & Co
• Asia: David Hill & Co
• Australia & Oceania: Robert DeHaven & Co
• America: John Cape shot down a Zero over Umnak Pass in a P-40E on 4Jun42

In Germany we associate Hawaii with Oceania rather than with America, that's why I'm not inclined to count George Welch's Pearl Harbor kills as "America kills".
I think I need a proof that Umnak Pass and the Aleutian Island belong to America geographically.

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Michael,
Umnak Pass is a strait between Umnak Island and Unalaska Island, in the Aleutian Islands chain. To my knowledge, there is no "Aleutian Island". They are a mostly volcanic extension of the Alaska Peninsula. I have credits for 40 victories for the 11th Air Force, based in Alaska. This includes claims by P-38s, P-39s and P-40s in the period June 1942 to April 1943. It also includes one claim by S/Ldr Boomer, CO of No 111(F) RCAF Squadron.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good evening Frank,

typo: accidentally I omitted the "s" in Aleutian Islands.
My ADAC atlas indicates that geographically the Aleutian Islands should be assigned to America, not to Asia or Oceania.
Thus, all aircraft types that have scored there are candidates for the title five-continent-fighter.

40 kills of the 11. Air Force in Alaska ?
This website shows only 33,5:
http://www.cieldegloire.com/bataille..._us_alaska.php
the top scorer being the P-38 pilot Frederick Moore.

Can you tell if the P-38, the P-39 or the P-40 had the largest share of the 40 kills ?

Best greetings from rainy Brandenburg,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good morning Gentlemen,

I've just finished working through "Tomahawk and Kittyhawk Aces of the RAF and Commonwealth" by Andrew Thomas. It's the fourth Andrew Thomas book that I've read and I enjoyed it very much.
Few questions remain:
1. Clive Caldwell faked his birth certificate to become a fighter pilot. What is his correct date of birth and what was his faked date of birth ?
2. How many combat missions did Caldwell fly in WW2 ?
3. There's a vivid description of a combat of Witold Urbanowicz against a Japanese plane. Urbanowicz's guns jammed but the Japanese slammed into the ground at high speed. I would call that a manoeuvre kill. Why isn't it included in his kill list ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Correct date of birth: 28th July, 1910.
Faked date of birth not given by either source, but there are two stories:

Stewart Wilson said he discharged from the RAAF when he discovered that his intake were going to be instructors. Re-enlisted ANZAC Day, 1940.

Kirsten Alexander, his biographer and an acquaintance of mine wrote that he was judged too old for fighter pilot training and THAT was the source of his re-enlistment. She gives a call-up date of 27 May, 1940 and an arrival at initial training commencement of 10 June 1940.

Sources: Spitfire, Mustang and Kittyhawk in Australian Service by Stewart Wilson, Aerospace Publications, 1988

Clive Caldwell, Air Ace by Kristen Alexander

Here is the listing for the former publication in ABE books

https://www.abebooks.com/products/is...&afn_sr=impact

Here is the listing for the book depository for the latter publication, it is out of stock, mind you:

https://www.bookdepository.com/Clive...9000147&sr=1-1

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Regarding the number of missions Caldwell flew, I messaged Kristen and this was her reply:

According to his flying logbook, caldwell carried out 496 operational sorties, equating to 1116 hours. I don't have the time to check those figures, nor to determine if he counted things like gun tests etc as sorties. The log book is in the AWM private records area if you are ever in canberra and want to check. Best wishes, Kristen

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Hello there Gentlemen,

by courtesy of Kirill I learned more about Zotov's shared kills.
That enabled be to update my P-40 top ten ace list.
name/P-40 score with shared kills counted as decimals(total kills)/nation
1. Clive Caldwell 20,5 (28,5) AU
2. Nikolai Zelenov 19,23 (33,4) SU
3. Billy Drake 16 (21) GB
4. Petr Pokryshev 15,1 (23,6) SU
5. Mikhail Mikhalin 14 (15) SU
6. David Hill 13,25 (15,25) US
7. Viktor Zotov 13,13 (22,58) SU
8. Sergei Litavrin 13 (18) SU
9. John Hampshire 13 (13) US
10. Bruce Holloway 13 (13) US
11. Robert Neale 13 (13) US

Have a nice Thusday,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good morning Gentlemen,

I'm trying to find out the definite total score of the AVG "Flying Tigers".
The totals given in different sources differ slightly:

• 231 according to cieldegloire (with two kills listed after the disbandmente date of 4Jul). The kill list on this website shows only 224 kills. Thus, I dismiss this figure.
  http://cieldegloire.com/fg_avg.php
• 230 according to warbirdforum. But when I count the individual pilot's scores up, there are only 229 listed.
  https://www.warbirdforum.com/vics.htm
• 229 according to wikipedia.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Tigers

I would accept 229 kills as definite but the warbirdforum list includes a David Hill kill on 6Jul (after the AVG disbandment date) whereas it doesn't include a John Petach kill on the same day.

Therefore, should I pin down the AVG total as 228 ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good evening Gentlemen,

were any of Robert DeHaven's or Ernest Harris' New Guinea victories scored over the Western part of New Guinea, the part that belongs to Indonesia today ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Caldwell's invented DOB: 28/7/1911. This can be seen in his digitised service file (p 25) at the NAA.

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Cheers Bruce

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good evening Bruce,

thanks for your answer.
Have you noticed that wikipedia tells the story about the fake but nonetheless indicates the faked date of birth in the parentheses and in the profile ? ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Caldwell
It surprises me that one year made the difference between being accepted into fighter training and not being accepted.

Have a nice Thursday,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Hello there Gentlemen,

by courtesy of Jim and Russ I learned more about the locations of the kills of the P-40 aces over Australia&Oceania. Thus, I could complete my breakdown of top P-40 pilots by continent.

The top P-40 pilots on each continent were:
• Africa: Clive Caldwell 20,5 P-40 kills over Libya and Egypt (includes ½ kill during convoy patrol)
• Europe: Nikolai Zelenov 19,23 P-40 kills over the European part of Russia
• Asia: David Hill 13,25 P-40 kills over Malaysia, Myanmar and China
• Australia & Oceania: Ernest Harris 10 P-40 kills over Papua New Guinea
• America: John Cape and Kenneth Boomer 1 P-40 kill over Alaska each (and any other pilot who scored one P-40 kill over Alaska)

I wonder if the location of Clive Caldwell's convoy patrol kill (16Aug1941) can still be determined.

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

The kill did not take place on 16 August, it took place on 18 August 1941 and was claimed as a damaged. Sgt. R T C Whittle claimed a probable in the same engagement. The convoy was off Ras-el-Mil
On the other side of the coin Hermann Foerster of 2./JG 27 shot down AK554 of Sgt. G M McCullough KIA (badly damaged, crashed on landing)
Location of Foerster's kill was E of Ras Azzaz

SO: LOCATION = Ras el Mil - Ras Azzaz sector

According to Kristen Alexander, the kill is recorded in 250 sqn's ORB as 19 August.

Sources:
Clive Caldwell Air Ace by Kristen Alexander
A History of the Mediterranean Air War vol 1 by Shores, Massimello and Guest

It has to be said....
...Making the outlay and buying some of the better sources would do you good, Michael, and it's not the first time you've been told that.

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Nick it is not your provenance to make such statements. Either answer the point directly or do not. You are not the judge of whether anyone needs more references or whatever.

One more of these snotty comments is going to get you banned.

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

John,
In the course of answering the queries on this thread I even contacted Caldwell's biographer. That represents no mean effort in that you don't get to know these people without putting in considerable hard yards.
This is also what I am capable of and have done many times:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=51306

....Versus 800 posts worth of "please do my homework for me"

All yours mate. See you in six months.

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good morning Gentlemen,

by the way, for my continent top aces I used the continental borders of today. I know they were of little significance in the days of WW2 but for my thought experiment I had to devise rules.

As I wrote in post32 the Caldwell kill whose location I'm most interested in is his shared Fiat G.50 on 16Aug1941.

I'll keep at it,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

p.230 of "Clive Caldwell Air Ace" by Kristen Alexander states half a FIAT G.50 "off Bardia" on 16 August.

p.245 of "A History of the Mediterranean Air War vol 1" does not credit him with any kind of victory on 16 August. Instead, a G.50 the next day, on 17 August during a convoy patrol.
PLUS
p.246 states a Bf109 on 18 August 1941 that was claimed as a damaged. Sgt. R T C Whittle claimed a probable in the same engagement. That particular convoy was off Ras-el-Mil
On the other side of the coin Hermann Foerster of 2./JG 27 shot down AK554 of Sgt. G M McCullough KIA (badly damaged, crashed on landing)
Location of Foerster's kill was E of Ras Azzaz

NOTHING for 16 August in that source....

Kristen Alexander is the BEST published source on Caldwell
Shores et al is the BEST published source on the Mediterranean air war

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Good morning Gentlemen,

currently, I'm contemplating about David Hill's first kill which I read as being scored over "Rahang". I know only of a Rahang in Malaysia and I am surprised that the AVG operated so far south.

Have a nice Tuesday,

Michael

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Soviet Tomahawk / Kittyhawk Aces

1. Pokryshev, Petr Afanasevich / Покрышев Пётр Афанасьевич = 14+6
2. Mikhalin, Mikhail Fedorovich / Михалин Михаил Федорович = 14+2
3. Litavrin, Sergei Gavrilovich / Литаврин Сергей Гаврилович = 13+0
4. Mitrokhin, Vasilii Borisovich / Митрохин Василий Борисович = 12+0
4. Repkin, Petr Afanasevich / Репкин Пётр Афанасьевич = 12+0
5. Zzotov, Viktor Alexeevich / Зотов Виктор Алексеевич = 11+11

Source:
Bykov, Mikhail: All aces of Stalin 1936-1953, Moscow: Yauza, 2014.
Быков, Михаил Юрьевич: Все асы Сталина 1936 – 1953 гг., Серия: Элитная энциклопедия ВВС. Такой книги еще не было!, Издательство: Яуза-Пресс, 2014. ISBN: 978-5-699-67789-4

Re: Curtiss P-40 top ten ace list
 

Jan Safarik is a forum member ?
Cool !
I like your website very much, especially those topics that are rarely discussed elsewhere.

You're right, Mr Bykov ranks his aces by their individual kills.
For my own personal notes I chose to add the decimals of the shared kills to the individual kills. It's just more of my liking.

I think we can safely say that Nikolai Zelenov scored above Europe only because the German advance was stopped before it reached Asian ground. To find the locations of his 17+8sh P-40 kills on Russian maps was rather difficult for me because I'm not very good in Russian. I found all those 25 places in what is today Russia but I cannot exclude that there are places of the same name in countries like Belarus or Ukraine and that these places are the correct ones.
http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/abc/zh/zelenov_na.htm

Kind regards,

Michael