Heavy bomber aces
 

Good morning Gentlemen,

in WW2 heavy bomber pilots usually were not credited with the kills of their gunners. But if they were, who would be the top scoring pilots of their plane types respectively ? These are my suggestions:

• B-17: Felix Hardison, possibly 26 kills, pilot of John Irons
• B-24: Samuel Skousen, possibly 16 kills, pilot of Arthur Benko
• B-29: Robert Haynes, possiby 13 kills
• Halifax: James Keys, possibly 9 kills, pilot of Peter Engbrecht
• Lancaster: John Grey, possiby 7 kills, pilot of Wallace McIntosh

Who were the gunners of Robert Haynes ?

Michael

Re: Heavy bomber aces
 

While I can add nothing further to the topic, I ran across a document I discovered at the U.S. Air Force Museum over 30 years ago when going through their files. It was a listing of aces from the various theaters of operations and also included some bomber gunners. Their names and details follow, but again, others will have to supply units, pilots, if the information is accurate, etc. I will type them word-for-word as shown on the sheets.

China-Burma-India (Includes 14th and 10th AFs)
Benko, Arthur J., S/Sgt. Bisbee, Ariz. 9
Gouldthrite, George W., T/Sgt. Spokane, Wash. 5

Thirteenth Air Force (Including crew members credited with 5 EAD)
Agnew, John W., S/Sgt. 5
Bowen, Wilbur L., T/Sgt. 5
Cielinski, Joseph J., S/Sgt. 5
Held, Charles F., Jr., S/Sgt. 5
Lee, Harold E., S./Sgt. 5
O'Brien, Frank, Jr. T/Sgt. 5
Stefanski, Edward J., Sgt. 5

Twelfth Air Force
Bruner, Robert M., T/Sgt. Dixon, California 6
Goerard, Jack D., S/Sgt. Beaufort, S.C. 6
Bowkar, Fred E., Sgt. Oak Park, Illinois 5
Myshall, Joseph E., S/Sgt. Millinocket, Maine 5


Twelfth Bomber Command
Warner, Benjamin F., S/Sgt. San Francisco, California 9

Kent

Re: Heavy bomber aces
 

Good morning Kent,

thanks for your list.
I remember some fellow told me Benko's score might have been only 9.
My impression of his score being 16 is from Christophe Cony's article "Les Dessous de l'Histoire N°5: Arthur Benko et the Goon" in AVIONS #198. The article features a photo of Benko's B-24 adorned with 16 victory symbols and a photo of a monument in Arizona that acknowledges 16 kills for Benko.

Have a nice Thursday,

Michael

Re: Heavy bomber aces
 

Good evening,

did Short Stirling gunners ever shoot anything down ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Heavy bomber aces
 

Does evidence mean nothing to you?

I demonstrated, using multiple original sources, that Engbrecht/Gillanders claimed 6 and 1 probable between them that were accepted and documented by Bomber Command and still you peddle 9.

NB that is 6,1,0 with no attempt to reconcile with reality. Reality is very likely less than that.

Why bother with finding the truth when you can just carry on collecting fanciful data til the cows come home

Did Stirling crews make any claims? Oh please

Martin

Re: Heavy bomber aces
 

I learned to mistrust those who lay claim on reality and also those who define their opinions as evidence. Luckily, they can easily be identified by their aggressive wording. Then it's easy to ignore them.

Re: Heavy bomber aces
 

I learned to mistrust those who lay claim on reality and also those who define their opinions as evidence. Luckily, they can easily be identified by their aggressive wording. Then it's easy to ignore them.

My response to you was not aggressive, and what I gave you was not opinion, but several hours of going through multiple records and trying to find evidence that what was claimed about two very brave and couragous people was true. I wanted it to be, but the evidence was not there

Please ignore me from now on, but if you are going to ignore people who give you hard evidence backed up with references so that you can go and find the same info yourself then please stop bleating on multiple threads

Johnny Bloggs got 26[3] as a waist gunner in a B-17, if you add that to the tail gunner's 19[5] does that make the pilot the best in the history of the world, or is there a Vultee Vengeance pilot in Alsaka with more.

Now that might be considered a tad aggressive

Re: Heavy bomber aces
 

Do I have to study geography oder philology to learn where 'Alsaka' is?